12mo ago

rule

FAQ

Q: why not organize and stop treating the bus as a legitimate entity? why aren’t you working to stop the bus?

A: do both. cut the fuel line. break windows. put oatmeal in the gas tank. but maybe your efforts don’t succeed this election cycle. and if so don’t fucking throw away your vote if it can help your neighbors fucking survive. “harm reduction” is not a political strategy for action. it is a last minute, end of the line decision to save lives, after all other resources have been exhausted.

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How does voting for someone who is funding a genocide going to sway that person to stop funding it? It's just illogical. There are plenty of Democrats who are active Zionists and support the war, probably a fair number are wealthy donors. The only way to sway the policy of the Democratic party is to threaten to their power.
I don't think you're selfish, and I don't hate you lol, I just think you're not seeing the enormous potential of forming a leftist voting coalition. Imagine how amazing it would be if the Democratic Party was trying to cater to the votes of leftists, and not to "moderates" who think that an openly white nationalist candidate is a viable potential option.
- That would be fantastic, I'd love it if the Democrats would stop doing what they've been doing the last 30+ years of punching left and chasing the "Moderates" rightward. But let's think about this logically for a minute. What are the possible outcomes of what you're proposing?
  Coalition Victory. We install an actual leftist in the White House. Fantastic. No more Genocide. We have a little socialism as a treat maybe? No notes. I love it. But that means we have right now about 7 months to produce or align behind a 3rd party candidate, one who likely won't be allowed on the ballot in several states, Then that candidate has to get enough votes to beat BOTH Biden and Trump meaning they basically have to pull at least like 18% of the vote from both sides in enough states to win the Electoral College.
  Trump Victory. Considerably less fantastic. Democrats blame the Leftists for Biden's loss as usual. Okay, we threatened their power and now maybe we can convince them that they need us to win in 2028 rather than them moving even further right as they have since Clinton. But meanwhile we still haven't stopped the Genocide, Donnie's probably gonna attempt to speedrun it in fact, we've got Project 2025 to worry about. I don't know about you, but I don't think Gaza's going to last until 2028.
  Biden Victory. Not as bad as Trump winning. Genocide is still happening in Gaza, unlike Trump he at least might be able to be convinced to end the genocide in a sense other than the Completionist one. Only now we've proven to the Democrats that they don't need the leftists at all actually and they're free to move as far right as they wish. So maybe we even lose that.
  Maybe we get incredibly lucky and Trump gets screwed over by these prosecutions and splits the GOP thus lowering the threshold for us to get an actual Leftist in? I'm not sure we can count on it with how the Judiciary is bending over backwards to try to delay these prosecutions until the election where presumably they'd all "have to get put on hold because it's looks bad to be putting a presidential candidate on trial." Y'know, that old chestnut.
  Realistically, we have to reckon with the fact that First Past the Post Winner Take All Voting and the Electoral College screws us here. There's a reason these systems mathematically tend towards a 2 party system. It's incredibly frustratingly difficult, nigh on mathematically impossible to break through the tendency for Strategic Voting that this system breeds. It's the Prisoner's Dilemma, but on a massive scale. A scale where we can only afford what, maybe a hundred thousand people getting scared and bailing on the plan at most for us all to get the worst possible outcome?
  
  You act like I've never heard any of these arguments before 🙄 when this lesser of two evils, game theory argument is the Democrats' party line to avoid accountability. Keep voting for us!! We won't change at all, in fact, we'll get more conservative, but keep it up! Thanks for the votes!
  Why would Biden be conviced to stop funding genocide after we elect him? After he has definitively learned that genocide is not a bridge too far for people to vote Democrat? It's illogical. You're just like oh hopes and prayers Biden will change his mind 🙏 YOU'RE the one being illogical.
  Threatening re-election is the only power we have to convince high level Democrats to change. I'm suggesting something that has actual power.
  We don't have to limit our political strategy to a single election cycle. If Trump wins, it's the Democrats fault for not adhering to basic moral values. When Democrats realize they will actually lose elections, they will put up different candidates in the next elections and they will support better policies.
  
  Okay cool. You show the Democrats they will lose unless they put up better more Leftist candidates by handing Trump the victory. What now? At the pace we're going, Gaza won't be around in 2028. All of the Palestinians will be dead.
  
  Yes, at the pace we are going under Biden. Under Biden.
  
  So the Genocide doesn't actually matter to you. Got it. You just wanna use it as an excuse to stay home. Kinda cringe bro.
  
  You're being intentionally obtuse right now lol this isn't the own you think it is. You just seem a bit slow.
  
  To get out of the weird negativity you brought into the discussion -
  Biden and Trump are much closer to each other politically than the Democrats would have us believe. Voting for third party could make the Democrats run more left-leaning candidates. If we keep voting for Democrats no matter what they do, they have no motivation to change! Why would Biden suddenly stop FUNDING Israel after we vote him in again? What is the motivation? But if Democrats lose or nearly lose the election due to losing votes, that's amazing motivation to change.

488 comments