Bosch manager in interview: eBike over-motorization is a risk to our business, because eBikes with more than 800 Watt power will lead to much stricter regulations

www.heise.de Interview with Bosch e-bike boss: "EU regulation that doesn't fit the problem"

The Managing Director of Bosch eBike Systems is concerned about the current race for motor performance and warns of possible EU measures.

Europe @feddit.org

www.heise.de /en/news/Interview-with-Bosch-e-bike-boss-EU-regulation-that-doesn-t-fit-the-problem-10481246.html

103 107

micromobility - Bikes, scooters, boards: Whatever floats your goat, this is micromobility @lemmy.world

Interview with Bosch e-bike boss: "EU regulation that doesn't fit the problem"

www.heise.de /en/news/Interview-with-Bosch-e-bike-boss-EU-regulation-that-doesn-t-fit-the-problem-10481246.html

9 2

62 comments

This is incredibly obvious to any person who isn't trying to defend their decision to purchase an illegal moped disguised as an e bike.

NO SHIT! And stop making e-bikes so overly complicated that they basically become motorcycles with less power.
The e-scooter industry had the same issues. They went from perfectly fine 250w motors, to 500w, to 5000w+. Like, wtf are you doing? These things are barely legal in most places, and you want to kill the industry before it even takes off!
- And stop making e-bikes so overly complicated that they basically become motorcycles with less power.
  Reputable bike brands still make the same ebikes they started building years ago. They're reliable, the brand batteries last decades and the bikes can be repaired by normal bike shops.
  
  I've been seeing more with integrated batteries,multiple extra parts to maintain (suspension on everything!), some use cargo racks that aren't even designed to fit panniers, handlebars that you can't mount standard accessories on, mandatory (?) app pairing, etc.
  Keeping them simple and repairable (AT HOME) should be a priority.

Nice how the article takes one bullet point from the entire article and makes it look like the whole thing is the EU's fault.
- Yeah companies don't like any regulation. If it were as they dream we would still live in asbestos-poisoned buildings and have electric appliances that for lack of safety regularly kill small children.
  What does this industry wants? Bikes where granny can go with 50 km/h on a bike path without a helmet?
  
  Just so long as she doesn't put it in her will. We want new generations buying new eBikes... no hand me downs.

The whole industry is worried, but it's not about one company. With motors like these, we are moving further and further away from bicycles, and as an industry, we risk e-bikes being regulated by the EU. So far, e-bikes have been treated the same as bicycles in the EU. And we as the ZIV want to protect this status. To achieve this, we need to clarify the gray areas in regulation that define what is and what is not a bicycle. And two values are important here: performance and the ratio between rider power and motor power.
In this respect, DJI achieves values with the Avinox motor with 1000 watts and 800 percent muscle gain that did not exist before.
As I said, it's not just about one specific brand. It's about everyone pushing the performance values upwards. And the EU could look at this and ask: What are you actually doing here with your Newton meter power assistance factor race? Unlike the e-bike, the S-pedelec with a cut-off speed of 45 km/h is considered a moped in the L1 class and is subject to type approval. The type approval defines the assistance factor 4 for the S-pedelec.
And now the e-bike manufacturers are launching e-bikes that do not require type approval with a factor of 8 on the market.
Note that there is some confusing terminology: "eBike" as a common (but wrong) term means a bicycle with assistance electric power which is limited to 25 km/h in speed. The proper term for this is "Pedelec". In difference to this, "S-Pedelec" means a light motorcycle which in Germany can go with up to 45 km/h, needs insurance, license plate, strict technical certification, helmet - and cannot, of course, use bicycle paths and cycle lanes.
- And I forgot to say, all these safety regulations are written in blood.
  
  Blood because roads and footpaths have been designed for cars only

Yeah it probably does need regulation. Pedelecs only. No throttle control*, limit to 500 watts**, no motor assist after 20 mph/32 km/hr. Anything above that has no pedals and is classified as ~~moped~~ scooter or electric motorbike and put onto the road. Draw a clear distinction between pedelecs (commonly called ebikes) and everything else.
(*Exemptions for medical reasons, so they can still use bike paths. Not sure how that'd be manufactured for small number. **Maybe more for hauling bikes.)
- I thought the general rule in most of Europe is already pretty strict with 250 Watts (500 for cargo bikes) / 25hm/h (15.5mph) and no throttle. Anything above is a speed pedelec and requires license plate, permit, insurance, helmet, and no access to bike infrastructures.
  
  I'm not familiar with EU but some quick googling says that's correct. Personally I would ban speed pedelecs, you just know people are going to abuse them and take them on bike paths. I say make a clear distinction between ebikes/pedelecs and scooters. Cops trying to enforce "does that go this speed or that speed" is a mess (for the user too).
- I'm kind of looking at ebikes for my ~10 mile commute to work, which uses no bike paths. 20 mph would be okay, but faster would be nice. Part of the route is on a country road, the rest is on the shoulder of a 50 mph highway (which is pretty wide and very popular for cycling already).
  I understand the bike path concern, but in my use case, there isn't much reason to be limited to 20 mph.
  I work for a bike shop, though, so I might be limited to brands they sell. :)
  
  Plenty of people ride bikes on these roads with no assist. You can definitely get a moped though. Nobody is stopping you from doing that. You just can't also ride a moped on a bike path, and that's for a good reason.
  
  @limelight79 @someguy3 Fixing the bike infrastructure so an ebike is suitable instead of a motor bike would help you a lot.
  
  @limelight79 @someguy3 Just because other infrastructure sucks doesn't mean other laws should suck, we should fix the infrastructure.
  
  If there's no speed limit then it shouldn't belong in the bike lane - it's more akin to an electric motorcycle.
  
  You might just be in the market for a moped.
  The license requirement of a vehicle is for the safety of everyone on the road, and a 20+mph vehicle is inherently dangerous no matter the shape and should be subject to regulation.
  
  What you want is apparently a light motorcycle or moped or vespa-like motorized scooter. You do not really power it by muscles, you need a really heavy and powerful battery, it will be much more expensive, you need a helmet, you need a license plate, you can't service it yourself, you really ought to wear heavy protective gear if you don't want to lose much of your skin in an accident or fall, you can't ride it in the winter because it is too cold, you need to use the road because you need far better overview at crossings. All these restrictions are written in blood.
  Oh and on a 10 mile commute your speed advantage will be minimal in most cases.
  The amazing thing about bicycles is that they hit a unique sweet spot of parameters and design constraints which simply is not accessible for motor vehicles. Mopeds have evolved multiple times from the (wrong) idea that you can have a fast bicycle by adding a motor, without changing fundamentally what it is.
  
  I mean people will be going max speed on bike paths and around pedestrians, no matter what you personally do. I see plenty of videos of yahoos going what must be 35 mph passing pedestrians. So I think it really does have to be limited.
- Ebike classes:
  
  Anything over Class III should require licensure to ride.
  
  I am aware and years ago I thought it was ok. After watching YouTube videos of yahoos, I think we need to get rid of 2 and 3. Throttle puts you into a different mentality, which I don't think works well with mingling with pedestrians.
  This has to be easy to differentiate and enforce without pulling up product sheets and testing it (because who knows what's coming from China anyway): Throttle? Banned*. 20 mph. Anything above that should be a clear ~~moped~~ scooter.
  You know that thing a rule is only as good as it's enforced? This needs to be dead easy for everyone, police and users.
  
  28MPH is 48 km/h. That's wayyy to much.

Did high-powered cars lead to more regulations? Why are such cars allowed in cities?
Power is irrelevant. Pedestrian crash severity = speed² × shape impacting human head.
Road-specific speed limits and weight limits have always been enough.
Fuck especially the laws that give 2- and 3-wheelers easier treatment than 4-wheelers:
https://xfwnofqagsnmdxuf.quora.com/Lawfare-against-tiny-cars-velomobiles
https://cleantechnica.com/2025/05/20/podbike-shuts-down-norwegian-e-velomobile-startup-files-for-bankruptcy/
- Power is irrelevant. Pedestrian crash severity = speed² × shape impacting human head
  This reasoning is solely done in a vacuum.
  You're forgetting the human factor of "people buy fast vehicles because they want to go fast".
  The data shows that more powerful cars are involved in more accidents.
  
  All that data shows is that BMW drivers are idiots, whether they drive high or low powered ones.
- Power is irrelevant. Pedestrian crash severity = speed² × shape impacting human head
  And in bikes, power and if existant, motorization is what determines speed.
  
  Speed limits are easy to force by GPS position.
- And what do we have to do with cars? Completely separate infrastructure, signalized traffic control, speed enforcement, insurance, registry, safety inspections, etc. We don't want that world for pedelecs.

62 comments