2年前

Gaza health ministry says Israel strikes ambulance convoy

www.reuters.com Gaza health ministry says Israel strikes ambulance convoy

Palestinian health authorities in Hamas-controlled Gaza said Israel struck a convoy of ambulances on Friday that was to leave al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City and head to the south of the enclave to evacuate injured people.

World News @lemmy.ml

www.reuters.com /world/middle-east/health-ministry-gaza-says-israel-targeted-convoy-ambulances-leaving-al-shifa-2023-11-03/

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Here is why those death numbers have always been historically accurate and also how the medical system is not really run by Hamas as explained by the Associated Press
Adding this for pre "BuT HaMAs!?!" clarity.
- Your source does not distinguish between military casualties and civilian ones which is the center of the entire argument. It comes self reported from hospitals and then taken at face value that they were not militants.
  BuT HaMaS!
  
  Yep, so instead let's consider everyone to be a militant! That excuses genocide, problem solved!
  
  Ding ding ding!
  
  When people are literally shooting at you persistently, what do you suggest they do? When nobody recognizes their war crimes and there is no where to go what do you suggest they do? When nobody recognizes that you are getting shot at despite plenty of proof and evidence, what do you do?
  You say your piece and do your best to follow the laws of war despite the opposing side not doing the same.
  You cannot honestly tell me that you trust Hamas more than Israel to follow the laws of war.
  
  I don't trust an apartheid settler-colonial state run by a wannabe theocratic dictator any farther than I can throw it. Bottom line, you don't have to trust Hamas either to see that Israel's response to Hamas actions are both wildly disproportionate and completely indiscriminate in their targeting. Israeli political figures are on record that they don't believe there is such a thing as an innocent Palestinian civilian and it shows in their willingness to slaughter bystanders by the dozens to get at a handful of suspected Hamas fighters.
  I mean, there's a lot to be criticized about the US and its actions in the "global war on terror," but we actually built a missile for this exact circumstance, so that you don't have to blow up an entire goddamn refugee camp to get one or two guys hiding inside it. Israel has the military capability to do something similar, they just don't care. Palestinians aren't people as far as they're concerned.
  
  They do not have this missile and we did the exact same thing as them when targeting militants that use those places for their operations. Any respectable military would because it is legal, ethical, and moral.
  Funny you don't mention the fact that the area called refugee camp collapsed because of the tunnels under it.
  
  You should go over there
  
  I'm good. I've been. Have you?
  
  Its not moral or ethical. Stop. If you think it had to be done thats your opinon and you are entitled to it. Don't pretend it was moral though. That's absurd
  
  What in your set of values is considered moral in war?
  
  Israel has one of the most sophisticated military-industrial complexes in the world, with vast expertise in electronics and remote sensing specifically. If they wanted to build a precision-guided kinetic weapon for targeted assassinations of Hamas fighters in dense urban areas, they could have done it without a second thought. Instead they spend their efforts on building an oppressive surveillance apparatus and robotic machine guns to better punish rock-throwing teenagers, and lob bombs into population centers to deal with Hamas in the area.
  re: the tunnels... these things tend to happen when you herd millions of people into a walled ghetto, cut off access to resources, and leave it to be run by what is effectively an overgrown prison gang. The fact that Hamas is willing to use civilians -- nearly half of them children -- as human shields does not excuse the use of indiscriminate force in calling that bluff. Again and again and again, Israel has made it abundantly clear that there is no war crime it will not excuse in the course of these retributive strikes, because the lives of Palestinians are worth less than nothing to Israeli leadership.
  
  Well, Hamas didn't murder 4000 children. So I think what you fail to recognize is that none of us trust either of these murders, but we will trust the 4000 child killer less.
  
  Please provide a source where Israel started their intent was to murder children.
  
  Your right, their indiscriminate "accidental" murder makes it A-OK.
  
  They are at war. This is not a limited fight. They are conducting a total war to eliminate the Hamas power structure. Hamas showed them that any inch they give them will be payed in blood. The lesson they learned last conflict is that conducting a limited war literally makes no difference in the information environment. They will lose anyways there so they are conducting a legal war to achieve actual change.
  I think you will find that absolutely none of these actually of war crimes will be stuck to anyone because the evidence is scarce at best, just like last time. The records match the decisions which match the intelligence. As long as no actual war crimes are committed, Israel could care less what you think of them this time.
  
  You are invading, hence, you are responsible for your own actions. That's life.
  Nobody but you dropped the bomb, pulled the trigger, made the decision. Israel has agency. They've used it to commit murder and they will come to be known as murders for it.
  
  You already considered them this before the start of this conflict even in a limited war. They honestly don't care about what you think. They want to change the calculus through the dismantling of Hamas so this can never happen again.
  
  This slaughter guarantees it will never end. You are beyond reason and I hope you live to see the fruits of vengeance the seeds you plant now will come to bear. I don't wish you or anyone harm, but when it inevitably comes, don't you dare for a second excuse yourself from the knowledge that you helped further this cycle of misery upon the world. "let he who seeks revenge dig 2 graves"
  
  I dont. But I do expect an obviously more powerful army with total control of the situation to set an example and show restraint (and wisdom). If they reduce themsleves to their enemy, then they nees to stop with the moral high ground nonsense.
  Its not so easy to hold your position when it's your family that gets murderes becauae there might be one bad guy among them.
  It was gross when Hamas did it, and its still gross when israel does it.
  
  Israel is not aiming to maintain the situation because that was what they were doing before. Their goal is to win the war and completely eradicate Hamas as a power structure. Everything is to further that end within international law.
  Hamas is doing their best to embed themselves within restricted targets and Israel does not always have the ability to tell when a building or vehicle they are seen going into is a restricted target. That does not make it illegal. It is also a war crime by Hamas. It places the blame purely on the side with knowledge of the ground. I'm yet to see Hamas get blamed for this in this conflict yet it absolutely is on them.
  
  So this is Israels Vietnam eh?
  Tell me, when you go into perform brain surgery to extract a persons cancer, why are you using a 10 pound hammer to perform the operation? It's called a scalpel you clod.
  Also tell me, if this is so precise then why are 40% of the fatalities children? That's 10% shy of the total percentage of the population they represent.
  Minimal effort is being taken, if any, to protect the people you claim brave Israel cares about. What a joke!
  30,000 active Hamas fighters according to Israel and you've already killed 10,000 people. 4,000 of them children. You are an unapologetic accomplice to a massacre that is still ongoing. You remember that, no matter how "moral" you tell yourself it is.
  
  I haven't killed anyone in this conflict. I'm sorry you have affiliated yourself with Hamas but I have not done the same for Israel. I would also not conduct this war the same way but I also won't stoop to calling it war crimes. It's just war.
  I'll ask again. Don't ignore it. What do you consider moral in war?
  
  ahh yes, please tell me about all the women and children being crushed under buildings that we're there working at the behest of HaMaS! Please, like actually tell me, because the burden of proof is on you there.
  
  Those buildings wouldn't collapse if there weren't Hamas tunnels under them. That's literally the issue right now and why entire sections are falling down.
  https://www.npr.org/2023/10/31/1209646548/israel-military-central-gaza-fighting-hamas
  
  @galloog1 @TinyPizza What kind of delusional crap is that? Most buildings aren't designed to absorb an Israeli mortar round
  Wow! Just vilifying the victims here
  
  Most building are more robust than that. Israel is allegedly using bunker busters that penetrate the ground and hit the tunnels. You categorically do not know what you are talking about when it comes to fires.
  I'm not vilifying the victim when the target is Hamas. They are not victims. They put themselves there intentionally (war crime) to create this dilemma which is in response to their massive attack on civilians which was defined in their actual orders. (War crime)
  No one in Israel is claiming they are doing anything but targeting Hamas. Hamas is still holding civilian hostages and took credit for the attack.
  When someone tells you who they are, you should believe them.
  
  @galloog1 No!! Most buildings are NOT build to survive and explosion Where the fuck did you even get that from!! More to the point if you're after one terrorist in one building you don't blow the whole thing up! That's just fucking stupid!
  And the victims WOULD BE THE OTHER RESIDENTS OF THE BUILDING ISRAEL JUST MURDERED
  
  Holy hell the stuff you say is patently dumb. Israel must be desperate to want you defending them. Goes around acting like an explosives expert and architect. What a garbage country Israel must be to have trash like you excusing their casual genocide.
  
  Resorting to name calling instead of addressing my points. I will admit, you are very good at creating a narrative that resonates with people who have no idea how any of this works.
  
  You're dumb if you think buildings can survive mortar rounds.
  
  Hey stupid, is name calling.
  More to the point if you're after one terrorist in one building you don't blow the whole thing up! That's just fucking stupid!
  What they did was actually call an action stupid. But if you weren't either stupid or just busy creating your own narrative, you wouldn't make such a baseless claim.

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