US to withdraw from NATO under Republican bill
Senator Mike Lee introduced the Not A Trusted Organization (NATO) Act to withdraw the U.S. from the alliance.
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If they're going to withdraw then why are they strong arming all the other nations to spending 5% GDP on defense? If they're not in NATO, who gives a fuck what they want?
It was a talking point that Trump had in his first term. He tends not to let go of bad ideas once they get into his head.
At the time, people didn't take it seriously. With the Ukraine War, Europe feels like it has to now. But it's going to be domestic production, not paying US MIC companies like Trump was thinking.
The 5% is probably too much, but its realistically 3.5% the othet 1.5% can be spend on infrastructure (like make bridges strong enough so tanks can drive over them), on cyber defense and other things that are not weapons.
Also it's about deterrence, when we spend enough Russia can't attack unless they match the spending, this is part why the Soviet Union collapsed.
The Soviet Union collapsing is what allowed the war in Ukraine. Do you see why rising military budgets in Europe doesn't exactly promote peace?
This is like saying Germany losing WW2 is what allowed Israel to attack Iran.
The antagonism between Ukrainians and Russians is a project the west has been pushing for a century. First it was Nazi Germany weaponizing a hunger episode that hurt Ukraine disproportionately more in order to create anti-russian sentiment (see Stepan Bandera), then it was Europe+US talking of Ukraine as a Russian colony during Soviet times.
In the 1991 referendum, Ukraine voted to remain part of the Soviet Union which was illegally dismantled against the democratic will of the majority of the Soviet population. Despite this, the country was dissolved, the economy was auctioned to the most corrupt bidder, the industry was dismantled, and by 2022 Ukraine still hadn't recovered the economic level it had before 1991. The dissolution of the Soviet Union literally caused a demographic crisis in Ukraine comparable to the ongoing war.
Until 1991, the tensions between Ukraine and Russia were minor and the countries had a benign, sisterly relationship. It is the breaking of the eastern block that primarily triggers anti-russian nationalism in Ukraine and vice versa in Russia. It's the broken promise of the west not to push NATO eastward that puts Russia on its toes, and it's western-backed colour revolutions like the Euromaidan that proved Russia that Europe would always position itself against Russia, and not establishing friendly economic and diplomatic ties.
Was Ukraine actually added to NATO? No
Do Ukrainians want to be Russians? No
In fact after the NATO summit of 2008 where Bush said Ukraine should be a NATO member, Putin who was at that NATO summit said he didn't want that (same for Georgia).
After that NATO didn't push membership further and Putin attacked and claimed parts of Georgia anyway.
About a month after Putin said he had no plan to attack Ukraine he took Crimea.
I know people from both Ukraine and Georgia and they always tell me that Russia has been an agressive neighbor forever and they really don't want to be Russians.
I'm not saying the west it perfect and we definitely did things wrong. But the invasion of Ukraine is 100% Putin, he did this, there was no war, nobody was threatening Russia. In fact the EU was slowly getting a better economic relationship with Russia.
But in the end all of this doesn't matter, it's not about NATO, or the west. If you listen to what Putin is actually saying, he thinks Ukraine and Georgia both are not counties. In his view they have always been part of Russia, so he would have invaded them at some point anyway.
I dont know. maybe to help them get ready or look like he's doing so?
That's the elephant in the room.
For those who don't know, Trump is threatening tariffs on Spain for not complying.
To me it means that the threat of leaving Nato is a ruse to facilitate armament for a big war against China. Fewer people would support that.
If you think Drumpf may be a Pootin asset, then it makes perfect sense. Spending more GDP on defense usually makes the incumbent party less popular, which may create opportunity for russia leaning candidates. Obviously, this would weaken NATO. NATO countries go along with Drumpf because they really still hold some hope that USA won't leave the fold. They are still in the Denial stage of mourning. Anyway, events in Ukraine have shown that more GDP spending on military is pretty much essential for any country within range of ruzzia.
Probably because they want those 5% GDP spent for contracts with the 'murican military industrial complex.
So, they wished the increased spending to the monkey paw and got exactly what they were wishing for: countries are cancelling orders of complex US equipment all over the world, and Europe is developing a military industry to compete with them.
that is the less undesirable outcome, but still it is depressing how primitive and fucking dumb humans are to still be bashing each others skulls in in the year 2025.
I don't think the US military complex consider that "less undesirable" than basically any other possible outcome.
... well, it may be better in their minds than an asteroid destroying Earth before they can cash-out. Maybe. I'm not sure about this one...
I don’t think the US military complex consider that “less undesirable” than basically any other possible outcome.
Either I disagree about the preferences of those murder-weapons-vendors, or you misunderstood my intentional double-negative, whose purpose it was to emphasize that it is absolutely not desirable that budgets have to be increased for mass-murder weapons.
I am saying the military industrial complex over in the divided states of fuck all and everyone, would absolutely prefer if people bought from them, less so as a cash-out but preferably as a permanent source of income. A privatized murder-weapons industry in the billions is the best way of ensuring we will never get lasting peace on this planet.
Defending yourself is so dumb, hey? Go and whine to Pootin. Everyone else has to react to the bully, or go extinct. Pacifism has no place so long as there is ONE invader/bully left.
I feel sorry for your 1 brain cell.
My one brain cell is sad that you have already been reduced to stupid dad insults LOL. Please bathe next time you're sober. You smell like piss.
But that's definitely (hopefully?) not going to happen if they pull out of NATO.
Never underestimate the corruption and stupidity of European politicians. "Divide and conquer" works like a charm on most of our corrupt assholes. See the stupid opportunist fuck that the Germans elected chancellor. His (our :'( ) government is pushing for the use of the Palantir(!) software from fucking uber-Nazi-piece-of-shit Thiel in German administrations.
They're demanding it of Australia (not NATO, but we do have ANZUS) too.
