In New York City, Drivers Who Run Red Lights Get Tickets. E-Bike Riders Get Criminal Court Summonses
In New York City, Drivers Who Run Red Lights Get Tickets. E-Bike Riders Get Criminal Court Summonses
www.nytimes.com
nytimes.com
66 comments
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Here's the heart of the argument.
“Since e-bikes do not require a license, drivers of e-bikes can simply ignore their traffic summons with no repercussions whatsoever, making any enforcement futile,” the police spokesperson said. However, the new requirement that cyclists appear in court, or face an arrest warrant if they fail to, creates “a strong incentive to show up in court.”
The article does a good job of explaining why a court summons is any where from an unfair inconvenience to down right dangerous for some, but the initial concern should be addressed.
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This excuse is BS. Unpaid traffic tickets can already result in a bench warrant and arrest even without the court summons.
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Agreed. After looking into it, there's a clear and established process for drivers and it should be the same for bikers.
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And here we see an example of a severely endangered kind of Lemming. One that can be fair to the side they disagree with.
👍
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This is why I always run when the cops try to pull me over on my emoto. Cut through some yards and alleys and I'm long gone. I wear a helmet so good luck identifying me.
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And here we see why a criminal court summons is necessary. Bikers will flagrantly violate traffic laws and then trespass to avoid responsibility. Thanks for providing an example so readily.
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Even the link with the unlocked article code didn't work, here's an easier way to read the article: https://archive.is/sZYDO
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I will just leave this here...
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Am I missing something? From what I see, this guy does tech repair videos. Did he get hit by an ebike?
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He used to live in NYC, had an E-Bike and repeatedly posted videos about the out of control bureaucracy eating the city from within.
He has since moved to Texas, but NYC has haunted him for quite a while.
Edit: It's an in-joke about his exasperation and temper relating to NYC and it's weird double standards in legislation.
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Bicyclists running reds? Is the court summons just to get a psyche eval? That's mental.
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Running reds, like speeding, isn't inherently "dangerous". It's a legal term. In the same way that going 40.01 mph in a 40 is speeding, running the red by .1 second is legally the same as by 10 seconds.
In shitty American streets bikes are probably safer to keep at the back of a platoon, which running reds lets them do.
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I mean this honestly, as a 20-year resident of NYC; fuck bikers. And e-bikers. Not a single one respects any traffic regulation. Laws mean nothing to them. One way street? Nah. Red light? Nope, I’ll ride past you and your toddler at 20mph so close you feel my breeze.
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I've been biking here for the last 20 years. (Before the bike lanes!) For me, basically 95% of bikers are fine. 5% suck. Just like cars.
I also hate the 5% of bikers that suck.
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For me the 5% that suck aren't because they go through red lights, or down the wrong way. I do this all of the time, and I'm never close to pedestrians. Pedestrians don't even know I exist.
I don't go on sidewalks, but I'm guessing that 95% of bikers on sidewalks are about to stop for a delivery and are going pretty slow.
The 5% that suck, for me, are the ones which do the "fly by" the commenter is talking about. Some biker going 25mph on their electric bike that gets within 6 inches of you.
This also happens with cars, and let me tell you, with a car, it makes my hair stand on end. It seems like the driver is saying, "let me show you how much I hate you."
Years ago when a car would do this to me (when the bike lanes just started coming out, there were a lot of people who were super mad), it would trigger a fight response, and I would catch up and prevent them from moving - just make them sit there - they would go batshit crazy. In retrospect, that was probably pretty dumb to do.
I think the answer to the biker problem, is not threats against bikers, but basically, make some thoroughfares biker only. Like all of Broadway, and maybe 1st or 8th ave. Mamdani should follow through on his campaign to hold Uber eats and etc, accountable. And then some sort of marketing, "Don't be an asshole - don't buzz people - this means you, delivery drivers and Bros on city bikes!"
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There are also some other undercurrents in play here. I wouldn't assume leftreddit is in this camp, but a certain percentage of NYC is.
There is a segment of NYC's population that "secretly" hates the immigrants and/or black people. Most of the delivery bikers are immigrants. And they are mostly black. It used to be most of the delivery bikers were Hispanic, but I think that has shifted. I don't know real numbers though..
So, not only is this guy zooming past fast for a delivery, but he's also an immigrant and he's also black. Really triggers some people.
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Anyhow...
I hope that NYC doesn't go back to the anti biker stance. But I do hope they put weight and speed restrictions on bikes.
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The article doesn’t describe a “biker problem” though. It specifically is talking about e-bikes and electric scooters.
It follows actions by city officials from Paris to Honolulu to Hoboken, N.J., who are responding to residents angry about zippy vehicles with silent electric motors zooming down sidewalks and streets, often startling people, and occasionally hitting pedestrians.
A manually powered bicycle or scooter is a lot different from an electric powered version capable of 20-30mph.
Unfair treatment of one group versus another isn’t right and more cycle friendly infrastructure is needed but do you put both regular and e-bikes on that infrastructure to share it? Wouldn’t that lead to a lot of the same complaints that sharing with cars currently generates?
I do think you’re right that it’s not all of any one of these groups (cyclists or motorists) that are problematic; we just notice the ones that are problematic the most. That said, cyclists are the minority which means they need “imperfect allies” of motorists to drive the change that leads to more, better cycling infrastructure.
I don’t know the best way to go about that but ignoring the laws you’re required to follow isn’t a great way to go about it. I’d propose instead that working to change the rules for cyclists so that they aren’t bound by the “one way” and are allowed to legally proceed through a red as long as they can safely do so (no opposing traffic at the light/stop, they’ve stopped and confirmed it’s safe to proceed) and so on would be good. Then it might incentivize some motorists to ditch their car so they can get around easier as well as improve the experience for current cyclists.
All of this is assuming the traffic laws in NYC work similar to where I am.
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Bikes going wrong way on a one way seems just straight up reasonable. In Chicago where I'm at they even have lanes on some one ways specifically for bikes to do that.
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Have been in Manhattan the last couple of days, the bikes (and especially the fast ebikes) are a damn menace. The cars at least stop for crosswalks and signals. The bikes absolutely do not. Got stuck at that big bike crosswalk near Central Park West as hordes of bikes just blew the red light, meant specifically for them in their dedicated bike lane.
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Yes, they are currently unregulated and not street legal, so if you break the law, you face the consequences. Motor vehicles have their own statutes, but etransportation does not yet ha e anything, and I'll bet automotive manufacturers will continue to fight to keep it that way so people continue to buy cars instead. What should be done about it? I haven't a clue.
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Mopeds have been a thing for a long time and electric has been an option for a long time. Also bike delivery has been a thing in NYC for a long time. That they are not street legal doesn’t make sense to me. Unless for the same reason a Mustang is street legal but a Mach E is not.
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Electric vehicles like scooters and the like is what I meant. Mopeds and bikes should be following the rules of the road like any motor vehicle. I believe fully electric scooters are not street legal and can't be insured. Bike couriers exist everywhere, and should be following the rules of the road too, but rarely do. Cars and their drivers are little better, but theres an entire arm of legislation that governs them where as none really exist for any other mode of travel?
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I occasionally visit new York, and this was long overdue I understand eco friendiness and it's nice that it's not cars but, it's insane there.
for those who have never been. The sidewalks and roads are absolutely littered with food delivery drivers. There are walking areas that as a pedestrian you can't walk because you risk getting run over by delivery drivers on bikes who only care about delivering as fast as possible to maximize their money. In a city with as heavy pedestrian traffic as NY that's a bad combination.
I fully agree with mandated court hearings for traffic violations on them, it forces the delivery driver to lose a day's income instead of just accounting it as a cost of the job. the previous penalties wern't doing jack.
It sucks that non-commercial might get hit, but most bike traffic is commercial and something has to give.
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This is the subheading on the article (emphasis added):
Some worry that New York City’s crackdown on unsafe cyclists leaves them facing greater consequences than drivers, even though cars cause more fatalities.
So why let drivers off the hook? You seem to care about safety, but then support enforcement that disproportionately affects those who are doing less harm? There's no logic, it's just vibes.
Culturally, we accept drivers causing a significant amount of death and destruction, but get so mad about anyone else. It's not rational.
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I'm not saying let the drivers off the hook, I'm just saying that bikers, from what I've seen there usually get ignored or just continue after fines, it's clear the punishment wasn't high enough. Hell I was just there in March and saw 3 people get hit and a bunch bikers just ignore the lights. (and ofc a crap ton of pedestrians as well but yea)
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I've lived here for almost two decades and I've almost never had a problem with bikes.
I did once see a driver make a right turn and hit a delivery bike kid, drag him for a few feet, and then speed off. Luckily, teenagers I guess are indestructible and the kid got up and rode away after a few minutes.
If you want better bike and pedestrian safety, the solution is probably build better bike lanes. There are a lot of spots with nothing, or a painted suggestion. There's a spot near prospect park where they expect the bicyclist to turn right, pass through a lane of traffic, and then just hang out in the center lane with all the cars. It's a nightmare.
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There was a video a long while ago where a cyclist got a ticket for not riding in the bike lane.
So he filmed himself riding in the bike lanes and crashing into the parked cars there and one of them was a cop.
It's clear that politicians don't give a fuck about cyclists.
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I fully agree, more biking accessible options becoming available wouod be good. it's not safe from either side.
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I occasionally visit New York
Ngl I stopped reading there. But I had to go back just to make sure your opinion didn’t matter
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I'm glad when someone confirms they read the post ahead of time. Makes commenting easier. It's a tad ironic you are doing the same as you are complaining about though
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then give that shit to those driving the motorized vehicles that weigh a few tons
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Cars don't drive on sidewalks. Well... at least not usually. Though I guess I have to admit that I've seen it.
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I mean no reason both couldn't be done I agree
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<-- A tourist.
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66 comments
Smeagol? Is that you?