1年前

'I lost my appetite': Cheeseburger served with waiver at Toronto restaurant

toronto.ctvnews.ca 'I lost my appetite': Cheeseburger served with waiver at Toronto restaurant

A visitor from the U.S. got more than they asked for at a Toronto hotel restaurant when they ordered a cheeseburger on Monday night that was served with a waiver on the side.

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Dumb American disgusted by his own stupidity
- He’s stupid because he ordered a burger how he likes it (and probably normally orders it), starts eating it, then they ask him to sign a waiver after he’s taken a few bites?
  Sorry friend, I’m not sure he’s the stupid one here. If the waiter had told him that he needs to sign a waiver before they put the order in, that’s one thing. Doing it after they cooked it to order and he started eating is where the real stupidity occurs.
  
  Dude is incredibly stupid, because he's been ordering under-cooked burgers without any conception of what he's requesting for "Bob"-know-how-long.
  He might like medium-cooked burgers, but he has no idea what that even means. The food at the hotel isn't less-safe than other places. They just didn't assume he read the fine-print at the bottom of the menu and were the first to inform him that it's not safe.
  Yeah, they delivered the waiver at the wrong time, but dude should've already known what he was ordering wasn't safe. I order over-easy, soft-boiled, and sometimes sunny-side-up eggs. I know the risks, and I accept them.
  Unless you put an a ton of effort into it, ground beef is only safe well-done. To get safe under-cooked ground beef, you need to discuss your intentions with your butcher and grind the beef yourself. Even with grinding a single, quality cut of beef, you're still gambling.
  Also, fuck you, I'm not your friend guy, here's a rocket ship ().():::::::::::::::::D~~~~~~~
  
  I’ve been eating burgers cooked medium (145 degrees F) for 30 years, and never get sick. Is it a Canadian beef problem? If the hotel is that worried, just refuse to cook it less than 160 and let them order something else. But no, capitalism says that Hilton must take their money and make them sign a waiver that probably has zero chance of holding up in court.
  You actually just need to get your ground beef from reputable places, and well, I sincerely doubt Hilton Hotels cares enough to do that. My butcher grounds his own beef from chuck, sourced locally, and I don’t have to cook my burgers to sawdust to feel safe about eating them.
  I’m not your guy, pal.
  
  To be clear, please continue to enjoy your food the way you want it. Just know what the words that exit your mouth mean. Life shouldn't be safe, and many of life's greatest pleasures are not safe.
  Is it a Canadian beef problem? Nah, it's just a problem with the definition of "safe food". If the food is not cooked to 165F, then any bacteria, fungi, and parasites that are present could still be alive. There are no guarantees that the beef didn't have tapeworms, and since ground beef is usually from multiple cuts, there's a larger chance that a tapeworm has been ground up and spread throughout. It's a tiny chance, but it's still a chance. Steaks are less of a risk, because it's a single cut, and the chef can visually inspect it.
  The waiver is stupid, but it has less to do with capitalism and more to do with the legal system. People sue for anything and everything, and I don't blame companies for trying to defend themselves from that. They asked the dude to sign a waiver, because they're afraid he doesn't understand the risks and might sue if he gets sick.
  Funny thing is: in this case the guy didn't understand the risks. He thought they were saying their beef is sketchy. What they were really saying is: all ground beef not cooked to 165F could be sketchy. I think he's dumb, because he doesn't know that a medium cooked burger involves risk but has been requesting it everywhere he goes. If he had known what a medium burger is, he would've just said "yeah yeah yeah", signed, and ate the burger like an adult.
  I'm not you pal, buddy. (but we might be friends now)
  
  They just want an excuse to spread hate.
- What makes him stupid? Cooking a burger to medium is extremely common.
- Reit007 said the server explained that because the kitchen at the Hilton Toronto Airport Hotel & Suites always cooks their burgers well-done, they should sign the waiver first.
  The disgusting part of this story is a corporate mandate on well-done burgers.
  
  You can have ground beef below well done, but it has to be fresh ground in clean equipment. Most restaurants that don't specialize in burgers/beef aren't fresh grinding mean on order. If you eat medium at a place that doesn't offer it you're responsible for your own decisions.
  
  I think cleanliness standards for kitchens should be governement ordained to be clean enough but to have to serve a waiver.
  If you're running a kitchen and are to dense to follow health and safety laws you shouldn't be able to operate.
  In his circumstance should the onus be placed on the customer.
  
  The restaurant was literally following health and safety rules in place in Canada, by not offering undercooked burgers from pre-ground beef. The customer wants it anyway, so in comes the waiver. Tbh my perspective is they shouldn't have accepted if it goes against health code, waiver or not.
  
  You're thick as pudding.
  A clean kitchen isn't enough. If your burger was made of preground beef you can't eat it medium. If ONE of the pieces of meat that was processed that day in the factory was contaminated all the resulting ground meat is also contaminated. That's why you cook ground meat to well done.
  If a restaurant wants to offer medium burgers, or steak tartare or some other form of undercooked ground beef, they have to grind it themselves, in small batches, and use practices that reduce contamination. They'll usually still warn you on the menu because there is still a risk. There are restaurants in Japan that serve raw chicken sushi, same concept. If you ask for undercooked chicken at a restaurant, you're an idiot, unless you've gone somewhere that can do it right, which usually starts from raising their own specially vaccinated chickens.
  Restaurants that don't offer undercooked ground beef are just trying to warn you that you're being an idiot ordering undercooked ground beef. If you make burgers at home from store bought ground beef and cook them to medium, same thing.
  
  Or don't allow beef with contamination risks at all ... Industry standards can be enforced.
  
  That's sooooo dumb holy crap. You're so combative on things you clearly don't understand at all!
  Industry standard are never "all beef must be sterile" that's insane. Industry standards are "you're allowed max one rodent hair per 100g of food" or "you're allowed 3 insect larvae per pound of canned elderberries" (real FDA regulations). Industry standards ARE being enforced, they include minimum cooking temperatures for meats.
  I know you won't understand why "don't allow contamination risks" is absolutely brain-dead. I don't have the crayons to explain it to you. Do a couple hours of research, figure out where contamination in beef comes from and what rules and regulations are in place to reduce the exposure risk. Then look up the way typical slaughterhouses and meat processors work, including the health and safety regulations that reduce contamination risk. Then look up why steaks can be cooked medium but not ground beef. Then look up what you need to do to make raw ground beef safe like steak tartare and med burgers. Then look up the cost associated with any single test for bacterial contamination on surfaces.
  Once you've got a good understanding of the situation, in general you'll realize the regulations that are in place make sense and that more stringent regulation wouldn't solve anything in a cost effective way, nor meaningfully reduce human contamination and disease.
  That or you won't understand enough and you'll still have a crazy opinion.
  Or, just maybe, in the rare case where you're a brilliant, reasonable person, you'll support some small budding initiative already in regulatory circles that makes a small incremental improvement to safety at a reasonable cost.
  
  You willing to pay $100 per burger? How about $1000? A cow isn't sterile. You're starting with contaminated source, so you have to decontaminate it, test it to make sure it really is decontaminated, and seal it medical-grade sterile to ensure no contaminants are reintroduced. And it all goes out the window the moment someone screws up, which happens even with food that absolutely must be sterile, as proven by the shenanigans with baby formula over the past few years. It simply isn't worth it when cooking ground beef thoroughly is so much easier and cheaper, and most of the population is okay with it.
  
  The only person that's too dense here is you buddy.
  
  you can have undercooked beef because bacteria can’t penetrate that far below the surface (opposed to chicken), if it is ground then that safety net isn’t there
  
  Its 160°F in center mandate, or you would lose your food service license. Why would a hotel risk that for one customer that wants it cooked below standards
  
  It's not a corporate mandate, it's a provincial government mandate that exists in the whole of Canada as far as I know (food safety for restaurants being under provincial jurisdiction) and for good reasons, the risks associated with undercooked ground beef aren't worth it to please the small % of clients who would want it.
  You want your patties medium? Buy a whole piece of meat, remove the outer layer, ground it and cook it, don't expect restaurants to do that for you.
  
  What constitutes a small % to you?
  Eating burgers cooked medium is very common. Well done beef is no different than eating leather.
  
  Ground beef isn't a steak and restaurants have health guidelines to follow because they don't want to make you sick, what you do at home is your problem (until it becomes ours because you get e.coli from undercooking ground beef that you didn't prepare yourself).
  
  I cook store bought ground beef burgers to medium rare multiple times a year and not once has there been an issue
  
  Yeah and some people smoke their whole life and never get lung cancer, it doesn't make it safe to smoke.
  There's e.coli recalls every year, but hey, don't let that stop you, not as if it could kill you or handicap you long term to catch it (need an /s on that or you're good?)
  Do yourself a favor, get a meat grinder and make your own ground beef if you want to eat it medium. It's cheaper and much more delicious.
  
  Nah, the disgusting part is the consequences of factory farming and humanity's domination of the planet and desire for meat.
  Well-done burgers are the band-aid for the deeper problems.

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