We Know “NoFap” Is Misleading Men About Masturbation. It Might Be More Dangerous Than That.
People in this community are hoping to fix their lives. But if they slip up, things can get worse.
I'm going to go ahead and lock this thread. I had no idea this would be such a contentious issue. Future posting about porn compulsions and related communities will be done with more care.
I got a lot of downvotes on Reddit for pointing out that there's no scientific evidence supporting porn addiction. It's just the latest version of religious indoctrination. ISIS was using that as part of their recruitment process: men who are sexually repressed are easier for them to manipulate.
The scientific paper linked from the article, stating there's no evidence for porn addiction, in case anyone would like to read more and missed it.
I guess it makes sense that the psychology community would push back against the claim that pornography fits a scientific definition of addiction. The same deal goes for sugar: many people talk about sugar being addictive, but it's pretty absurd to classify sugar as addictive substance, and the article raises this point very explicitly:
That isn’t to say that people can’t use pornography compulsively, as you may compulsively eat donuts or bacon every day against the best interests of your heart
And that's what most people usually mean when they're addicted to it. So I wouldn't say that it's indoctrination or "hive mind", it's just how people use the word "addiction" in day-to-day, non-scientifically-precise ways. You're absolutely right to point that out because people should not seek addiction treatment for porn consumption, but it's also understandable to seek treatment for compulsive consumption of whatever. Just like sugar and junk food, while the science doesn't say it's addiction, it also presents endless evidence on the negative effects of common patterns of consumption.
Idk just because it's "natural" to compulsively consume such both sugar and porn to classify them as non-addiction is a bit wishy washy and kinda stinks to me.
Humans literally have evolved to consume as much sugar as possible and same goes for porn because the human sexual response can't differentiate between real or fake sexual stimulus. Humans see naked bodies, humans get aroused. No matter wether digital imagery or not.
Yeah, lay usage of addiction is like lay usage of theory. Very different meanings than the clinical or scientific usage of the terms.
Same, I got in arguments about it. Quoting Wikipedia did not convince them.
Ask any psychiatrist and they will confirm porn is okay.
Imagine the mannosphere and incels being nofap. Imagine all that repressed energy, all this contradiction with their normal nature, just because of beliefs.
That's a good way to brew crazy people.
You mean like it doesn’t exist? Asking that as a genuine question since Terry Crews has talked about his addiction to porn and how it almost ruined his marriage, and it doesn’t seem like a crazy stretch to believe that you can be addicted to porn (or, maybe more accurately, addicted to getting off).
That being said, the NoFap community is pretty fuckin weird and unhealthy as a whole. The stuff like semen retention is unscientifically proven, and treating any orgasm (including from sex) as being bad is just plain dumb. There’s tangible health benefits to jacking off, and I would wager that it’s better to lay off the porn because of how much it can fuckin warp people’s minds about partners and sex (and to help curb an excessive whacking off habit - I mean like “this is interfering with my life” levels).
Nicole Prause, a neuroscientist who researches human sexual behavior at the University of California and the co-author of a recent study on NoFap, believes that there’s no objective basis for pornography addiction, an opinion supported by numerous peer-reviewed studies and experts in the field.
. “If the public uses terms like ‘I’m addicted to chocolate,’ that’s fine. I’m not gonna police language like that,” Prause explained. “But when you use it to refer to a disorder, it has a very specific meaning that pornography just does not fill.”
"Addiction" is a specific word with legal and medical meanings. "Porn addiction" is not recognized as an addiction.
Some porn, along with a myriad of other factors, can contribute negatively to an individual's sexual health. Not all porn is crazy and unrealistic. Not all porn is unhealthy.
Some of the other quotes in the article address how most people who diagnose themselves with "porn addiction" actually have another underlying disorder, often depression or bipolar.
I don't know Crews personally, but I can guarantee a licensed professional did NOT diagnose him with porn addiction. Because that's just not a legitimate diagnosis. The world, and particularly America, has enough issues with mental healthcare. Making up fake disorders to self-diagnose hurts the medical community that's actually trying to help people with real disorders.
Addiction has a very specific clinical meaning as is stated in the article. Porn usage doesn't fit that meaning. That isn't to say that someone cannot compulsively masturbate or watch porn. But, again as stated in the article and a lot of other literature, it doesn't have the same physiological or psychological effects as an addiction. And most of the people doing something compulsively like that are doing it as a symptom of an underlying problem (likely depression in many cases), not as the cause of the problem itself.
In other words, crack and Xanax create a problem. Porn can be used in response to certain psychological problems.
I like Terry Crews. Wholesome guy. But he isn't a doctor or scientist.
"Porn addiction" is actually more like "porn compulsion." Colloquially, compulsions are often called addictions ("video game addiction" is also a compulsion, an addiction would be something like crack) but it's worrying with porn because it's treated as an actual addiction, and the theories behind the modern worries about "porn addiction" are pseudoscience by unqualified people (Gary Wilson and Marnia Robinson) with a very strict idea of what a sexual relationship should look like.
People can be “addicted” to everything and anything. It just requires the “right” mindset to turn that thing into more than a habit. Saying people has innate tendency to be addicted to something is totally different, however. The latter also happens to be what matters in the medical field for obvious reasons.
The basic mechanism of psychological addiction is there: a behaviour that creates an immediate reward.
I think it's a lot like weed or video game addiction.
Is it going to send you to the hospital? Probably not. But if you let it take over your life to the extent that it's detrimental, then using strategies that help people kick physical addictions can be effective.
These religious groups seem to hate a lot of things that appeal to basic pleasures, want to make you feel bad for wanting to feel good.
I mean a porn addiction is absolutely a thing, but it's not an issue inherent to porn, humans can form a mental addiction to anything and porn can be an easy target. It's just not porn itself that causes the addiction, since it's not physically causing a chemical dependence, and porn addictions obviously aren't anywhere near as prevalent as addictions to physically addictive substances. Porn addictions are certainly much much rarer than religious institutions act like they are, but they do exist, they're just psychological in nature rather than physiological. And to reiterate, porn itself doesn't cause addiction, or addictive behaviour if you want to be pedantic about it, but some people can form an emotional dependence on it just like they can form an emotional dependence on anything. If not porn then something else. But pretending they don't exist at all is just ridiculous. The term addiction isn't only used in one specific medical or physical sense and never has been, even in the medical community.
I'm anti-religion and been addicted to porn. Your views are pretty extreme as well. Not everything is a religious conspiracy.
I feel addicted to porn and games as well. I feel weird when I'm not getting either one of these for a long time and I don't see any way to get out of this. But I guess games addiction is still not that damaging to my mental health unlike porn where I start to fantasize intensely even if I get slightly distracted with such feelings. Then I try to make an elaborate scene in my mind with all sorts to kinks or fetishes that I like until I get enough dopamine out of it.
One University study suggests that primates have been masturbating for around 40 million years. I think it’s safe to say we’re probably ok beating our meat a little now and then (though obviously excessive masturbation can be an issue). Interestingly, prevalence of masturbation seems to go up with primates in captivity, which to me suggests it’s either a stress response (relieving tension), a reaction to the more limited activities available (boredom), and/or a reaction to the safer environment (more free time not worrying about getting killed).
This last sentence describes highschool.
But isn't the point of nofap that porn conditions our thoughts to imaginary situations that might be unlikely in real life? Like impossible body standards or performance standards or just unnatural interactions.
There's another post about an article that looks at this specifically. See here: https://sh.itjust.works/post/2077733
This is a typical internet story where a moderate space about reducing porn consumption and then it gets taken over by extremists. NoFap is typical sex negative talk packages for men and young boys for the internet age. It focus on something simple like reducing porn use until it becomes a full sex negative no masturbation's and no sex philosophy.
The shame around masturbation is immense even if you don't get it from church. This is an attack male sexuality and reduces it into a simple phallic centric ejaculation focused instead of a whole body pleasure focused. This also ties really well into a female centric sex negative attack on porn in general which doubles up on the shame on men. The two together help support and create this false "cheating" definition and jealousy of toxic monogamist relationships. The idea that since we are monogamist neither of us has any other attraction is an insane and is impossible for both men and women. This ties into the PIV procreation focused sex that is the only "correct" sex which leads the both people unsatisfied with women's pleasure completely ignored and men's pleasure reduced to a single second and the "thrill of conquest". These dovetail create to shame men for taking care of their own needs with porn and masturbation to focus on guilting and coercing their spouse into giving them low pleasure sex.
Moreover, this is super kink negative with the idea that kinky sex and porn being an escalation and not an innate part of humans sexualities. While men may not be kinkier than women they for sure get their kinks earlier. These kinks are almost explored in a visual medium since most require one or more willing partner and technical skills. These kinks should be explored this way as it starts until all partners find out what they want, learn the technical and emotional skill without causing lasting emotional or physical damage to both partners.
While there are some problems in mainstream porn since its used a replacement for real sex education and is built for some misogynistic viewers. However, there is more ethically created porn out there. Ironically NoFap usually attack the most ethical created porn in OnlyFans which gives the power directly to the female creator instead of the generally male lead mainstream porn industry. Porn is always going to exist and if people actually cared about human trafficking and ethical treatment of women they would support those who create it well.
it’s unlikely that PornHub is going to change you from a liker of vanilla sex to a connoisseur of amputee gangbangs—and certainly not in real life.
Challenge accepted!
Porn made me hate most porn. Artificial, misogynist, abuse-fantasy garbage.
I agree, I thank to all real exhibitionist sharing their normal intime moments with us. Professional porn, even more one pretending to be "amateur" is just awful.
In case anyone is interested Dipsea is recommended for exotic stories which many people enjoy more than visual media. Erika Lust is recommended for ethically created visual porn. Both have a large variety of content depending on what you like. Also free trials
so I was always destined to be a degenerate, it isn’t the internet’s fault?
Just as god always intended, you degenerate
Oh man, the shit that gets me nowadays...
This better not awaken anything in me.
It was already in you, buried deep.
I'll fap as I please, thanks. You'll have to take it from my cold, dead hands.
If you're still going at it when you're cold and dead, well good job, lich.
Even liches have to masturbate! They just have a problem finding the right bone to pull...
Just got to give yourself the Chill Touch
I started having sex more
nice solution, why haven't I come up with that before
in my opinion those wo "celebrate" no-nut-november our whatever this idiotic "event" is called are harming themselves...
Masturbation is a healthy thing, good to relieve stress, good for your health, for you hearth, your prostate...forcing yourself to not relief yourself from time to time by following an internet "movement", is just plain stupid and without any useful result.
So stop doing stuff that you see on degenerated internet platforms like twitter, facebook, instagram or whatever they are called today...
And if you think I'm full of shit, good! Start thinking for yourself or ask people who know what they are talking about, like a freaking doctor...
I'm struggling to understand stand the extreme takes on this thread. Is it not possible to acknowledge that NoFap can increase suicidality in many inspite the of how the community around it has been a source of mental health improvement for some? That it's possible for NoFap to not increase suicidality in some people inspite of it's impact on its participants as a whole?
I feel that we are dismissing the experiences of some people in this thread when we tell them that their experiences aren't real because the article says so.
I am also concerned about the tenor of some of the discussion here. Future posting about porn compulsions and related communities will be done with more care.
I'm member of the no fap community
Please, stop purposely misunderstanding us and keep perpetrating us this pro-porn propaganda. The NoFap community is a MASTURBATION ADDICTION RECOVERY COMMUNITY, not a place where we tell people that masturbating is inherently bad!
Humans have been masturbating since they're on this planet basically, but it has never been a problem until porn on the internet. With all the things you see on mainstream social media of course 13year olds are going to be masturbation addicted, everywhere they go on the internet is either full of borderline soft porn or people claiming that masturbating 10 times a day over some random mysogynistic adult content is fine. Masturbation is healthy, but with limitations and without overstimulating yourself with all this content. You don't even need to access porn sites to find sexually arousing content and most of the times it's one of the kind of contents which companies and mainstream social media profits on because it makes us slaves to the screens
I don't understand why would you even purposely misunderstand the statement that destroying your life with porn and insane masturbation rythms is bad for your psychophysical health. The "90 days" are not a ritual, but the days most of the nofap users needed to actually get rid of the addiction and all its related effects and actually start a recovery journey. Also, we consider having actual sex a GOOD thing. NoFap is not about sexual abstinence, it's about ADDICTION RECOVERY
NoFap saved my life, I would probably still me as miserable as I was in my early teens if I've never discovered that community. You don't understand it because you either haven't tried it or just never been addicted.
You don't know the brain fog, the inability to even speak properly o to even make noarmal logical connections. You don't know the pain of always feeling the urge and feeling sleepy 24/7 and the heart fatigue related to it. NoFap increased my self esteem, my willpower and even fixed my sleeping schedule. Same for other people I know who have found themselves in the same situation
Always remember that a lot of these articles but be financed by porn companies, that's the only explanation. You don't need to be a genius to understand it
EDIT: Y'all are making a big deal over the term "addiction" and not over the issues that it brings
You're describing symptoms of depression. Porn addiction is not a thing, stop spreading misinformation.
Bro wants to teach me what I lived in first hand. These things ultimately end up doing the opposite of what you think. You start because of loneliness or boredom and you and up burning down your dopamine receptors.
Because out of nowhere whenever I do it I have brain fog and all but if I don't do it I feel better... Mh that doesn't sound like depression.
Y'all need to get out of nhentai 💀💀💀
EDIT: I would also mention that I started not-masturbating even before discovering the NoFap community and I could still see the benefits. It's worth mentioning so you don't tell me that it's a placebo or something
What the fuck
Facts, what all these people do not want to hear bro
Well whatever you may have personally gained from it, that doesn't change the fact that it has an awful lot of members who are both far-right and pushing embarrassingly bad pesudo-science.
Unironically saying big porn propaganda.
You can't be anti porn and say masturbating isn't inherently bad in the same comment lol. Real lack of self awareness buddy.
You can masturbate without porn. You're being dense.
You have the understanding of a child and debate like one.
So you want people to stay addicted to porn? You don't have to write a pseudoscientific long ass article for that
If you want to throw the word pseudoscience around, can you post any scientific evidence that beatin the meat causes porn addiction? I've been doing it my whole life and hasn't caused me any issues, just ask ur mom after I banged her last night.
Yeah beating the meat doesn't cause any addiction. Just like drinking alcohol doesn't cause addiction? Or injecting drugs into your body? Do you even know the definition of addiction.
If you are a man, just masturbate 3 times a day, and then don't masturbate at all for a while. You will see the difference. You don't need some expert validation for simple shit like that