ExLisper @ ExLisper @linux.community

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17

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1,983

Joined

2 yr. ago

Yes, we don't have a universal definition of intelligence but we in general everyone would agree that knowledge is not intelligence. Simply storing information does not make anything intelligent. Book is not intelligent, Wikipedia is not intelligent, hash map is not intelligent.

No, a hash map is not intelligent. There's no processing in the hash map. The input is not processed in any way, you directly use it to find the corresponding out put. Think about it this way: if you take a hash map with all possible inputs and print it out, will the paper be intelligent? You can still use this paper to map each input to an output, it holds all the same information the hash map did but obviously a mountain of paper is not intelligent. So you scan it back and store in a computer. Did it suddenly become intelligent now? Of course not, it's still just a static collection of information. Information is not intelligent.

No, infinite hash map is still not intelligent, not even by the standards used in computer science. It's not a one-layer network, it's not a network at all. To talk about network nodes form layer 1 would have to connect to multiple nodes in layer 2. The signal would have to be processed somehow. Extremely big one layer neural network could be intelligent for all we know. In theory some consciousness could emerge from sufficiently complex system like that. In a hash map there's no processing though, not matter how big it is. You simply take element A and return element B mapped to it. The operation is always the same. Making this map bigger does not add complexity, knowledge or alter how it's processing inputs. Big hash map is just like a small hash map, only bigger.

Some. They have big chemical industry so a lot of cleaning products and cosmetics come from there. But it's always easy to find substitutes. Also because of their criminal behavior a lot of companies moved to other regions so it's even easier to avoid them now.

They can leave it they are willing to pay for the national infrastructure build there and take their fair share of national dept. Now take this offer to Catalans and see what they will say.

Well, you know wrong and your 'arguments' don't make any sense. Every country has a region that's an 'economic powerhouse'. Do you believe each of those regions should become independent? You know why Catalonia is an economic powerhouse? Same reason as regions in other countries:

• geography: this region is simply conveniently located to build industry there, has proper resources and good climate
• politics: Spanish government purposefully moved a lot of industry from other regions to Catalonia. They didn't simply build it, it was uprooted from other regions and moved there
• migration: a lot of hardworking people migrated there after industry was moved and worked to build strong companies there
• strong internal market: Catalonia is selling it's products to Spain. Without a strong market in the rest of Spain they would not be able build their economy. Until Spain joined EU they would face tariffs and would have difficulties exporting.
• investment: central government invested a lot of money to build roads, railways, port and airports in Catalonia.

Obviously there are other regions that could be an 'economic powerhouses' of Spain. Without Catalonia Spain would simply invest in other regions and consolidated industry there. The idea that Catalonia grew in a vacuum and built it's economy independently from Spain to later be invaded and exploited is simply a lie. It's a integral region of Spain that have seen a lot of investment. Investment made by Spain with the cost of big national debt that Catalonia want's to avoid paying now. That's what it comes down to: Catalonia want's to take the money and run away.

Now to you 'cultural and ethnological' reasons. Historically (until 1990') only bout 20% of Catalans considered themselves different country and wanted independence. That's because till 1990' the independence movement was based on cultural and ethnological values. It didn't really worked, 80% of Catalans still felt they are Spanish. In 1990 Catalan leaders started talking about money. Their arguments shifted to "we are the economic powerhouse, we should keep all our money" (sounds familiar?). Suddenly support for independence grew to around 50%. It's not because their culture changed, it's because people there understood that disrupting Spanish politics and fighting for independence will give them money. That's what it's all about. This rhetoric also ignores the fact that 50% of Catalans still consider themselves Spanish citizens and want to live in Spain. They are being actively discriminated by Catalan government and in case Catalonia becomes independent will entirely lose protection given them by Spain. Supporting Catalan independence gives Catalan green light to discriminated half of their population. Keep that in mind next time you will promote Catalan propaganda.

Because they are stealing money from the rest of Spain and work to worsen the lives of people in other regions for their own benefit. I'm not gong to support that by giving them money.

“My instinct is they didn’t think this product was going to end up in a country with a robust regulatory process,”

Is this guy serious? It wasn't detected before kids got sick, they still don't know what happened and he's talking about 'robust regulatory process'? Here in EU I always check where products come from (not to buy something from Catalonia by accident) and all the food is made in EU. It's because there are strict regulations on food safety, workplace safety, monitoring and so on. Countries that do now meet those requirements have tariffs put on their food and there's extra requirements and check on imports (ask the UK). That's why I keep hearing about cases here where they recall some food before anyone gets sick. But yeah, bringing food from Ecuador, waiting for kids to get sick and then trying to figure out what happened is 'robust regulatory process'. Amazing.

Both countries run by right wing partis. Coincidence?

It's not that it's not science. Different sciences simply define intelligence in different ways. In psychology it's mostly the ability to solve problems by reasoning so 'human like' intelligence. They don't care that computers can solve the same problems without reasoning (by brute force for example) because they don't study computers. In computer science it's more fuzzy but pretty much boils down to algorithms solving problems by using some sort of insights that are not simple step-by-step instructions. The problem is that with general AI we're trying to unify those definitions but when you do this both lose it's meanings.

Nah, it was all me. All of it.

Just because you don't agree with something doesn't mean it's wrong. Ever heard of opinions? I guess not.

The question is not if something is a patter matcher or not. The question is how this matching is done. There are ways we consider intelligent and ways that are not. Human brain is generally considered intelligent, some algorithms using heuristics or machine learning would be considered artificial intelligence, a hash map matching string A to string B is not in any way intelligent. But all this methods can produce the same results so it's impossible to determine if something is intelligent or not without looking inside the black box.

And ladies and gents, we have the 'moving goalposts' comment, it's 'reddit bingo' and we can close this thread. Thanks you everyone.

If you want to get philosophical the truth it we don't know what intelligence is and there's no way to identify it in a black box. We may say that something behaves intelligently or not but we will never be able say if it's really intelligent. Turing test check if a program is able to chat intelligently. We can come up with a test for solving math intelligently or driving car intelligently but we will never have a test for what most people understand as intelligence.

No, a dictionary is not intelligent. A dictionary simply matches one text to another. A HashMap is not intelligent. But it can fool a human that it is.

It's not making Turing test obsolete. It was obvious from day 1 that Turing test is not an intelligence test. You could simply create a sufficiently big dictionary of "if human says X respond with Y" and it would fool any person that its talking with a human with 0 intelligence behind it. Turing test was always about checking how good a program is at chatting. If you want to test something else you have to come up with other test. If you want to test chat bots you will still use Turing test.

WTF? This is so fucked up. This is not were duck's feet go, this is where wings go. The dick goes exactly in the right place though.

So reddit of you. Ignore the entire thread, look only at the headline, talking about related things is forbidden, only the headline matters.

Yes, and babies that cry too much.