copygirl @ copygirl @lemmy.blahaj.zone

Just a dorky trans woman on the internet.

---

Read more

Posts

30

Comments

210

Joined

2 yr. ago

So you replied just to confirm that you didn't read the story of Isabel Fall.

Please read Ada's comments in the thread regarding the "attack helicopter identity meme".

I invite you to check which instances "all those Blåhaj users" are actually from.

People got banned for responding to a post by the admin herself titled "Neopronouns are not trolling". They literally started arguing with an admin right then and there about whether some user's identity / pronouns are valid. I don't know what other outcome you expect.

We only insist on using the correct pronouns. What's the purpose of arguing the validity of a supposed troll's identity when there's plenty of actions to criticize? How often do we need to tell you that the correct response to a trolls is NOT to start misgendering them or similar, before you get it?

You do understand that pronoun use and (gender) identity aren't necessarily linked, right?

The existence of dragons has no weight on the validity of drag's pronouns.

I was saying that "thatsaspicymeatball" is impractical as a pronoun due to its length, and a result of that is likely a joke pronoun, reinforced by the fact that you made it up for that explicit purpose. You can't make that same claim about the use of "drag" as a pronoun. And again, thinking someone is trolling is still not a valid reason to disrespect their identity or pronouns (in Blåhaj Lemmy), for reasons already stated elsewhere.

This is not the first time the drag/drag pronouns person came up (currently not sure what name they're going by) and it looks like the admins have previously made the decision to back them. Heck, perhaps to them, it's a good way to weed out people who can't understand why the rules are the way they are. Just like someone's ethnicity, age or appearance is irrelevant to discussions, neither are their identity or pronouns. If PugJesus is the person that got banned, then it appears they have yet to understand what they did wrong, and the ban appears to be warranted.

All that's being asked for is to accept everyone's pronouns. If you think someone is using joke pronouns – which again drag/drag is exotic but literally no extra effort to type than they/them – then you can report and let the mods and admins deal with it. Arguing "I don't need to respect this person's pronouns because dragons aren't real" is where you step into the realm of rule-breaking in this instance.

Feel free to read some of the experiences and opinions of other trans people in this thread. Notably, we don't all agree, but it's not all that out there as you're making it seem.

you’re currently coming into a space and violating its community standards

If I'm truly violating db0's community standards, then I would like to know. And looking at the (A)CoC, I don't think I am.

See how that works?

"My pronouns are the entire bee movie script."
"My pronouns are they/them'); DROP TABLE Pronouns;--"
"My pronouns are an hour of silence followed by an ear-shattering scream."

Obviously there is a limit to what is reasonable to use as a (neo)pronoun, in line with the purpose of personal pronouns, and drag/drag is very much within acceptable limits, wheras "thatsaspicymeatball/thatsaspicymeatball" is not. Our opinions might differ, and that's okay, but you're not making a good argument for your side.

the admin was tricked into enforcing flawed rules to an absurd absolute

This is where we disagree. As far as neopronouns go, drag/drag is still pretty tame. It doesn't take a lot of effort to just go along with a persons preferred way of being referred to, in a space where doing so is expected. You're not supposed to decide on your own whether it's worth respecting depending on whether you think this person is a troll.

The reason? There's plenty of people out there, say on the spectrum, who often have trouble with being mistaken as a troll, for lack of being able to state their opinions and thoughts properly, or any other reason. I have personal experience with one such person. And their identity deserves to respected just the same as anyone else, even if their takes and opinions you are free to argue with.

Even if you know someone's obviously faking being trans (Josh Seiter comes to mind), it doesn't hurt anyone to just go along with using the pronouns they asked for, while criticizing them where it actually matters.

Does db0 have a ToS? I can see an "Anarchist Code of Conduct", which seems to only support my points. In addition, db0 Lemmy has its own rules that could be seen as censorship just the same. Pointing out either instance's rules existing presumably doesn't imply that I'm advocating for authoritarian control or against discussion of ideas.

If you said your pronouns were 19 characters long, then one would argue that it is no longer functioning as a pronoun. drag/drag, other than being exotic, works fine in place of a pronoun. (Though one could argue it is so unique it's more akin to a nickname, but that's another discussion to be had.) If you instead said your pronouns were that/that, and being serious about it, it would likely be accepted. Sure, you could argue it's a line being drawn elsewhere, but it's not on the matter of identity.

I know numerous people that use fae/faer pronouns, some friends. Fairies aren't real, either. Does that mean people should be allowed to make those same arguments, be allowed to openly be disrespectful and arguing against the use of those pronouns, in a space that explicitly asks you to respect them? No, of course not. Admittedly, I don't know anyone who isn't also okay with certain non-neopronouns being used for them as well, but if they weren't, I personally wouldn't think much about it and just use them.

Alright I suppose it technically is censorship. I'm not a native English speaking person. You certainly shouldn't be surprised about a community's rules being enforced, though. I don't think it would be sensible to complain about "censorship" if (as an example) one is spouting bigoted nonsense at family dinner and is getting thrown out the house as a result.

It isn't censorship if you get your post / comment removed or banned for breaking a rule. That's just the moderators / admins doing their job. And there's a subtext to saying "dragons aren't real", which is "I don't think I need to respect this person's identity or pronouns". That's why it's gatekeeping. You don't get to decide what identities / pronouns are valid or which rules apply to you because you think you made a good point.

By questioning the person's neopronouns, you're gatekeeping which identities or pronouns are acceptable. Nobody cares whether dragons are real or not. Many letters of the alphabet mafia have been questioned on whether they are real or not, and even continue to be, so over here, we're simply not doing that.

As for why you're being disrespectful: You broke the rules of the space and now you're making a big stink about it. Considering you're admitting yourself you think this person is a troll, I think it's time to admit your loss. You "fell" for them, got "tricked" into breaking a rule, and got banned as a result.

Yes. Them's the rules on Blåhaj Lemmy.

If I were a transgender person

Thanks for "cisplaining" what a trans person would feel.

As a trans person, I would rather have a space where everyone's identities aren't questioned, than some kind of (potentially hidden) requirement to be in place that your identity has to be "real" in some way. If "normies" have trouble respecting trans people just because we also happen to respect other identities in our spaces, then shrug. If fellow trans people are uncomfortable with that, they don't have to be part of this space, either.

In the end, you're once again making this a much bigger deal than it has to be. Someone broke the explicitly written out rules and got bonked for it. And if you think this person is a troll, they sure are a good one with how much they're being fed with all these posts.

Makes me wonder if the "I got banned" posts are just a continuation of the trolling to make as much drama as possible.

Move on. There's trans people dying out there. This isn't worth fighting over.

Why are you hung up on the "dragons aren't real" thing? That was never a requirement. Some people will argue that being trans isn't real, being plural isn't real, being genderfluid isn't real, being bigender or another gender entirely isn't real. (Not that you are claiming this.) As such, the admins there simply decided that there won't be a line drawn. Let people do what they want. Heck, you could consider it "roleplaying" if you're more comfortable with that, or alternatively, simply don't engage. It's disrespectful and not to mention disruptive to make it an issue.

Blåhaj Lemmy and its communities have certain rules regarding respecting of one's identity and their chosen pronouns. This extends to identities and pronouns you might not agree with. Those are the rules of that space. You broke the rules. The consequences followed. This is just basic stuff.

On the other hand, if you believe certain people to be trolling with their neopronouns, then engaging with the matter in any way, is kind of "falling" for it. So, just ... don't engage? This is the internet. People get to be (more or less seriously) humanoid animals, fantasy creatures and races, and if you can't get along with that, you can expect to get thrown out of a space that explicitly welcome anyone regardless of their identity or pronouns.

I can also recommend the NoScript extension.

It breaks a lot of websites – which you then have to unbreak by re-allowing scripts for certain domains, temporarily if desired – but you end up getting a better feeling of how bad the web has become when you come across places that want to load scripts from dozens or more of different domains. Like, you're intending to tell how many other parties that I've visited this website?