Iran says it has right to defend itself after Israeli strike kills soldiers
Israel's military says it completed "precise strikes on military targets", weeks after Iran's ballistic missile attack on Israel.
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Getting the hell out of all 67 occupied land
Dislocating over 9 million people is no small feat. Where would they go? Or should they just lay down and die?
They said leave all 1967 occupied areas.
You responded with the entire population of Israel.
And I later asked how this will appease all these other actors that just want to wipe Israel off the map. How will that happen?
You mean you assumed facts not in evidence.
Does that make Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas any more likely to establish lasting peace with Israel if they surrender a tiny sliver of land?
If Israel de-occupies Palestinian and Lebanese land, stops blockading Gaza, stops blowing up chunks of it's neighbors, then it removes any moral grounds for them to continue fighting Israel. Instead we're to believe Israel is the defender when they've occupied their neighbors for 50+ years.
What percentage of these attacks on Israel is justified to you? Particularly the ones involving killing civilians.
All of them. If you want to compare killing civilians there's a graphic around here showing that Israel has killed far more, every year. Of course I wish they'd target active military and civilians involved specifically in Israel's MIC. But if Israel's strikes on hospitals are justified then so are the ones you're worried about. You can't have it both ways.
They don't have to go anywhere. They just don't get a religious ethnostate any more. Let Palestine be a free democracy and they are welcome to live in a free society, no apartheid.
Iran, Hezbollah, and Hamas want to kill them all, though.
Read again I said the land colonized after 67 so the israelis aren't moving anywhere
Oh, you mean this? If they're such filthy colonizers, how is that going to change the situation enough to stop the violence?
All the post 67 land are considered occupied why Palestinians should give up their land?
I thought the entirety of Israel was unlawfully and immorally seized from the Palestinians over the course of decades. At least, that's what most pro-Palestine folks seem to think.
It is but most of us are not heartless people who would like to kick out 8 millions people
An actual, mutually peaceful solution would be better. Hamas has turned down or broken ceasefire after ceasefire. There is no reason to trust them at this point.
Israel do not want peace and keep expanding illegal settlements to make it impossible to have a two state solution. Israel never stop killing Palestinians even before Hamas was ever created. As long as there is occupation you can't expect the oppressed to not take vengeance
The various surrounding states have been trying to destroy Israel since its inception as well. Just like Iran is funding and arming Hamas and Hezbollah today. I don't need to tell you that all three are incredibly oppressive regimes.
Why would native people accept people who came from Europe to build an state in an already populated place? Zionists early leaders admitted that they want to whole land. Like Israel first prime Minister ever said this : " after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine" and Israel first president said : "partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years"
Arabs did not intend to take revenge after the 48 loss yet Israel decided to colonize the West bank and Gaza. Israelis 6th prime minister admitted this : "The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him"
Hamas has turned down or broken ceasefire after ceasefire.
Stop consuming Israeli propaganda. Seriously, at this point you're just embarasing yourself. For further reading see the 2008 and the 2012 ceasefire deals, which Israel actively refused to abide by.
Because they'll stop being filthy colonizers.
I thought the entirety of Israel was unlawfully and immorally seized from the Palestinians over the course of decades. At least, that's what most pro-Palestine folks seem to think.
It is.
So, should they all just leave or die? Or will handing over a tiny sliver of land magically appease Hezbollah, which insists that Israel must be destroyed, Hamas, which was founded with the goal of destroying Israel,, and Iran, which wants to completely erase Israel?
Id rather they be tried and convicted like we did to the Nazis at the Nuremeberg trials, but I'll settle for them leaving, sure. Why must the Palestinians accept their presence when their entire presence was on the mass displacement and genocide of their people? They're not even sorry for any of it, they're literally doubling down on it all and continuing it on a scale never seen before.
Why are you so shocked that militia groups were formed to counter an oppressive genocidal colony? Also, keep in mind Israel literally helped prop Hamas up to delegtimize the Palestinians in the eyes of the international community. It just came back to bite them in the ass.
The population of Israel is almost 10 million people. Much like Trump's plan to deport around that many brown people, it's only doable with concentration camps.
Maybe the solution to genocide isn't more genocide.
Majority of Israel support what their government is doing in Gaza. This won't end just because a foreign power decides to enforce a ceasefire and maybe some kind of simple recognition of Palestinian statehood. There's way too much bad blood, and most of it is on Israel's hands. If this happens we'll have a middle eastern version of North and South Korea. And given how the US backs Israel unconditionally, it's only a matter of time before they re-attempt their settlement of all of Palestine. Because who's going to stop them?
Okay, so where should they go? If Israel is dissolved and the territory handed back to the Palestinian people, there will be a massive ethnic cleansing at the hands of Hamas, Hezbollah, and Iran. Extracting every single Israeli would create yet another refugee crisis somewhere in the world - speaking strictly in terms of how to materially support all these people.
Ethnic Cleansing has always been a cornerstone of Zionism.
to be fair, it's much easier if you just annex and slaughter the fucking browns who are there
Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations, and Iran is a state sponsor of terrorism. Do you want to go to bat for them?
Otzma Jehudit is part of the Israeli Government coalition, it consists mainly of internationally wanted terrorists. and you want to bat for these terrorists? the ones who have been preaching the 14 words as a justification for genocide?
Assuming that's true, that's one group within the government. Find them, try them, and imprison them. On the other side are three entire genocidal terrorist regimes. Will you side with them? What do you think we should do with them?
we don't need to fucking find them, they are open, they give speeches about how starving and killing every Palestinian is a moral good on a daily basis. they ARE the government, who's going to put them in front of a judge and find them guilty, themselves? you are literally supporting a genocidal terrorist regime.
And apparently the other three genocidal terrorist regimes are better than them?
considering that all three of these regimes are not committing genocide at the moment, Iran not even interested in said genocide and the other two only existing because they are a resistance movement against Israel. yes, I think you can make a very compelling case that said one genocidal terrorist regime is worse than the others.
Hezbollah was relatively quiet before the war kicked off, Hamas was supported by the Israeli state under Netanyahu to act as a spoiler towards the PAs attempt at a diplomatic 2-state solution, and Israel has been in power for the past 70 years. Hamas and Hezbollah literally only exist because Israel is an expansionist apartheid state.
If Iran isn't interested in the genocide, why do they fund and arm Hamas and Hezbollah? And Israel supported Hamas as an opposition to the PLO, which was a major terrorist organization at the time. Do you think they intentionally created Hamas as an excuse to get their own people bombed?
Israel supported Hamas as an opposition to the PLO the PLO didn't fucking exist anymore when Hamas being supported by the Israeli government, Hamas started out as a humanitarian aid group affiliated with the Muslim brotherhood and radicalized before the second intifada, they were supported to undermine the PA who had been created as part of the Oslo Accords (that Israel then ignored), the most prominent example f this being when the IDF conducted air strikes against Fatah (the actual PA government) during the Hamas - Fatah civil war.
Yes the Israeli government helped create Hamas to undermine any attempt at negotiation towards a two-state solution, and a few dead Jews are no biggie, in fact they died as martyrs to justify genocide, you know eggs and omelets, this isn't out of the ordinary behavior for genocidal regimes.
Calling the people you dislike “terrorists” to avoid critical thinking about the atrocities (including genocide) of your own side isn’t really the gotcha you think it is.
Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran, and Israel are currently acting as terrorist states/groups. That isn't up for debate, because it's objective reality.
I’m not sure that there is credible evidence of Iran and its affiliates targeting civilians the same way that the occupation has, their acts all seem to be targeting military installations rather than civilian targets. The occupation primarily targets civilians and civilian infrastructure.
I’m not sure that there is credible evidence of Iran and its affiliates targeting civilians the same way that the occupation has
I guess Oct 7 was just a figment of our collective imaginations.
That was a military attack on military targets. It’s hard to know for sure what the actual outcome of that day was though since the occupation prohibits investigations. Certainly there were many civilian deaths, but there isn’t any evidence that suggests they were an intended target or that the majority were even killed by Hamas.
I'm not calling them that on my own. I'm describing them the way multiple other nations have described them - not Israel. You only need to see their actions towards their own population to see why.
