This new dating app will use facial recognition technology to exclude trans women

We sometimes have to clarify that LGBT+ folk aren't particularly virtuous, just people, and like the rest of the population suffers from its own share of internal bigotry. The lesbian community is no exception.

Lesbians range from really rather bisexual to staunchly misandrist and there are different gatekeeping checkpoints, where some don't count trans women as lesbians to others that don't want to date a woman who's ever been with a man (which makes for a really small dating pool).

But this kind of exclusion is not about who these women date, rather who they allow into their community and are allowed to come to their potlucks and tea parties. Generally communities that are progressive and have experienced external oppression and dehumanization are glad to be welcoming and inclusive. Mostly. And I think this includes the lesbian community.

From my experience. I'll get to how that's tricky.

I've found the lesbian circles I've engaged with have been even more inclusive than the general LGBT+ community. They're actually really good about including bisexuals and trans women that are into women. However, this is partly due to the anthropic principle: Even though I'm enby I still have [M] on my state ID, look like a dude and have male parts, and have been completely forthright about this even in online circles (e.g. r/actuallesbians) where no-one would ever know I was really a cat. But this means that I don't get invites to circles that are more restrictive, since I'd be high on the no-admittance list.

But inclusive lesbians are not super fond of less inclusive ones, especially since human sexuality can change over time. The closet has multiple doors, and when your best friend who invites you to all the get-togethers is a women-only transphobe second-wave feminist (this was a thing), and suddenly you've been taking an interest in a special guy, you're going to keep your bi-curiosity hidden from your friend (or stop being friends). And as per the whole thing of coming out, the point of the LGBT+ community is being able to be who you are, and being accepted and validated.

So when I see a lesbians dating app that is intentionally looking to draw transphobes, it reminds me of those conservative dating apps to hook up men in the white power movement with trad-wife minded women, which is to say it's good they're over there and not trying to date people over here that they're ultimately going to disappoint and hurt.

Good point. I don't want to date trans people, but I wouldn't want to use an app that purposely excluded them. I'd rather occasionally have to go "oh sorry thanks for telling me" than restrict my dating pool to bigots.

I guarantee you that Facebook could build one.

I mean, isn't that also just true of anyone you've interacted with? Their point was that they never "found out" someone they were dating on there was trans, and everyone that dated from those apps who oc every discovered were trans were straightforward about it.

Why would you need or want to be that precise about your language?

Having known multiple trans people and heard them talk about the arguments for and against early disclosure: Fear.

1. They may not be public about their status, and fear exposure to family or coworkers seeing their public profile.

2. They may fear harassment from transphobes. This could range from DM accusations of pedophilia to religious screeds to doxxing to death threats.

3. They may be trying to avoid "chasers." There are some people for whom a trans body (particularly a transfem body) is a fetish, who don't actually care about the person inside. Plenty of transpeople don't appreciate that kind of attention.

4. Fear of rejection. They may believe that nobody will respond if they're open about not being cis.

Also two less fear-related (and less common) possibilities:

5. Ideology. To some people, specifying "transman" or "transwoman" reinforces a social distinction they find invalidating or don't accept. How many profiles have you seen that specify themselves as "cisman" or "ciswoman"? For these people, it's a way of rejecting cisgender normativity.

6. Maybe they just aren't ready to talk about their genitals yet, or have their first conversation be about their surgical plans or history. Not only can get really repetitive having that be the first conversation with every single match, it means they don't get any of the information they're looking for about a potential partner until much later in the process and have to invest a lot of their own time up front. Just like you want the salient information you care about early on, so do they.

Already has. Creator of the app doesn't past the screening test.

Ah thanks. It says that in the article?

I can always tell it is a toupee... except when I can't.

The consensus in the trans community is to let a potential partner know earlier, rather than later. It avoids the situation you've encountered. Some men also can react violently, when they find out, so it's quite a critical dilemma to them.

Unfortunately, not all follow that mindset. They also tend to bust out a lot, and so lead a lot of men on.

It's a bit like the scumbag dilemma women face. Very few men are scumbags, yet women encounter them regularly when dating. Most men try not to annoy the women they find attractive. They are careful in their approach mentality. This means they only make a few approaches (relatively). They also tend to pair off, and so exit the pool. Scumbags cast a wide net, and don't hang on to women for long. This means they make a LOT of approaches, and so annoy a vastly disproportionate number of women.

Basically most trans people try to be as polite and careful about it as possible. A few, unfortunately, can destroy the reputation of the rest by being scumbags about it, at least locally.

Oh trust me I was, I tested pretty much all of them 😂

the majority it was displayed directly in the bio, and the rest told me in the first or second message

I trust you but I can’t relate to your experience, I always encountered honest people (at least with this subject)

Were they actually being dishonest about it, or were they not disclosing it? There are a lot of things people don't disclose before meeting up. Outside of a romantic relationship context, cis people tend to be more accepting of trans people in general if the cis people don't know right away that the person is trans and find out later.

But for sexual/romantic relationships it's different because most people want to know the genitals of their potential partners up front. This makes it difficult for trans people, who are stuck deciding at what point they should disclose the state of their genitals, in a way that is considered honest, keeps them safe, and maintains some privacy.

Yes it does suck on your end but on the other side of the phone your perspective date is probably having a whole mental breakdown about it. For a lot of trans folk disclosure is absolutely nessisary as early as possible and preferably for safety reasons not when you are face to face...

Buuuut they also are very likely to get really vile transphobic backlash from a perspective date as much as they are honest rejections based on genital preference which sucks to be rejected for but is nobody's fault. There's a lot of trans people out there who feel like they are never going to be given a chance. Either way steeling themselves for one form of rejection or a vile reminder of the awful people out there who think you are subhuman and are offered up a nice juicy target on which to let loose their bigotry does tend to make for disordered social niceties. Once someone has been burned enough they get pretty damn shy and the procrastination is more of a case of battling personal traumas until the last possible second where one absolutely must do the right thing.

I would advise not taking it too personally.

My sister is trans and she had to deal with that. She also made it extremely obvious that she was trans but she still got Neo Nazis.

She also got banned from a dating site for saying that she was only attracted to cis women.

Well to be fair trans people are extra hot ;)

I’ve read that the transition itself is usually a smaller part in addition to what has been already dealt by nature

This is unfortunately not the case for most trans people. I think it's quite rare that a trans person would consistently be able to pass (=blend in) before HRT.

There are some trans people who are also intersex, which is the condition when one's biological sex (without medical intervention) doesn't fit neatly in either the male or female boxes. But most trans people aren't intersex and about half of intersex people aren't trans.

Edit: But I do agree with your main point, there's simply no way an app like this could identify trans people with the vast range of facial features humans have. It will both exclude many cis women and allow many trans women, as Giggle did a few years ago.

That is exactly my point

I don't think it's really that simple from many trans peoples' perspective, as it places an obligation on them to out themselves before they even talk to a person. Many trans people's goal with transition is not to live as "trans" it's to live as their target gender, not some "other". Being trans is not a sexuality.

A better solution would be to have people who don't want to have the possibility of ever dating any trans person put that as part of their profile.

If people have an issue with doing that then it kind of reveals the truth of the issue for what it is.

Almost like instead of relying on faulty AI predictions, they can just include that as a bio and search option. No bullshit AI necessary.

@Corgana@startrek.website

They said the same thing about gaydar but I already subscribe $9.95/month for the AI addon package for that. I already preorded the trantenna (trans antenna 🤣 ) for a cool $500 down. No price is too much to keep children safe... on dating service networks? Wait, I thought we hated trans people to save the children? There shouldn't be children on these sites anyways.

Nope

lots (not all!) of 20-30 year old men with shitty opinions these days thanks to gamergate and joe rogan....

And what about fat guys like me who have tits and a dick?