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transgender @lemmy.ml
marcie (she/her) @lemmy.ml

An admin of this instance, Nutomic, is a transphobe and has no right to be able to ban trans people from this community.

I'm calling for https://lemmy.ml/u/Beaver@lemmy.ca, the most prolific user of the transgender comm here on lemmy.ml, to be immediately unbanned and nutomic to be removed as admin. It is good and correct to leak the DMs of transphobes.

@dessalines@lemmy.ml @JoeBidet@lemmy.ml @cypherphunks

edit: you can find more info from kristinas post here and beavers post here

edit 2: proof, also beaver was banned from the whole instance modlong

edit 3: For trans people looking for a safer instance, I suggest Hexbear. They have a very active trans user base and are extremely supportive.

110 comments

  • Oh god … this happened?!

    • [I'm neither transgender nor a tankie, but instead just a rando browsing "all" who has no dog in this fight (aside from a general preference toward egalitarianism and against bigotry). I'm only commenting because this appears to be starting to spill over into issues that are relevant to the Fediverse at large.]

      Nutomic, you were probably pissed off about the leaking, I think most would get that.

      Hell no, not even a little bit! There's no such thing as "leaking" a PM because the recipient has the right to publicize it! It's fucking nuts to send a message to somebody -- especially one that pisses them off -- and then expect them to keep it secret for the sender's benefit. If the sender doesn't like it, his recourse is to not fucking send the message in the first place!

      The notion that the recipient of a PM has any kind of obligation toward the sender is the dumbest fucking thing I've read on this site in a while, and that's saying a lot since I've been reading about Trump and shit. Actually going so far as to ban somebody for a reason so pants-on-head moronic is absolutely beyond the pale.

      By the way, I'm assuming that you (@maegal) are saying things like "I get that leaking personal chats is always a dodgy thing" because you're trying to be charitable to better persuade Nutomic. If you actually believe that nonsense, then you need to get your head screwed on correctly, too.

      (* unless somebody hacks the server to obtain PMs that he wasn't a party to, which I assume is not what we're talking about here.)

      • I don’t think we’re that far off from each other.

        In saying “always a dodgy thing” I meant something closer to “always potentially” where obviously it depends with transphobic messages being a relevant example.

        That being said, I think this is a scenario where people will naturally differ in their expectations. “Obligation” as you put it is a very strong word and nothing like what I was alluding to. But I think many would subscribe to the idea that direct messages are a relatively protected space. Some less so. All with exceptions and “lines” that probably differ too. I briefly asked someone I consider more ethical than me, and they were probably more inclined to think of DMs as protected than me. Obviously no excuse for abuse, but presumed private.

        I also suspect that there are generational differences here too. Older people whose Internet lives precede facebook’s push toward merging real and online life might have a greater inclination toward expecting privacy online.

        In this particular case, it was clearly devs/mods talking shop, so clearly less of a public discussion. But you never know. Maybe nutomic felt like they could share their more speculative “theories”without worrying about coming off as crazy. Dunno.

        Personally, I’d like a culture where DMs are presumed protected and private. But maybe that’s just me.

    • I swear, petty and vindictive banning is far worse on Lemmy than it ever was on Reddit, and particularly on ML instances.

      If I were to indulge in a bit of armchair psychology, I'd say it is a side effect of venerating authoritarianism.

      • Maybe it's worse on ML instances. I honestly would start explaining it by looking at how much red-scare crap they go through.

        But generally, I think you're right ... I've seen ban-happy mods too, and not on ML instances.

        I'd say it's people learning how to manage decentralisation/federation. It gives people a greater sense of ownership and power and so you get some power tripping and a new source of drama and identity politics (based on instances). Kinda sad actually.

    • Hexbear is 100% the safest for trans people on the fediverse, I definitely suggest heading there if you want a safer place. Its admin'd by a lot of trans people and has an extremely active trans community with thousands of comments and messages per day

      I'm on lemmy.ml because I like checking all trans spaces on the fediverse, but obviously with a transphobe in charge that makes that harder. Of course, that also means wading through a lot of horseshit from transphobic trolls, which I'm hoping to help with

  • man "leaked private messages" is such a weak fucking excuse in the face of transphobia. @nutomic@lemmy.ml you realize you're just alienating a huge fucking number of comrades? not just trans people, but all those that rightfully stand with us too.

    edit: nutomic you absolutely can come back from this if you don't double down. accept your shit, and work on it. and you know what that would be great to see, there's not enough of that in the world.

    if not then @dessalines@lemmy.ml and other core devs, i think you have a tough decision to make. i absolutely do not envy you. though do keep in mind that handling this correctly will solidify even tighter community support behind the Lemmy project.

    we need more good comrades behind ActivityPub development :p

    • Agreeing with you here, I’m wondering if this can spawn a broader project to try to alter the relationship between the admins, mods and users.

      More and better feedback loops and grassroots organisation and less “admins and mods own this, take it or leave it” culture.

      In the end, I think this comes down to poor admin/mod practice and poor community leadership where many of the users here would just like to make sure things are better.

  • I just think it's sort of interesting that this particular event is what has clued some people into the fact that a not insignificant portion of the online leftist community views LGBT issues in the context of this geopolitical campism. These are the same attitudes which cause some in the community to routinely look past other notable anti-LGBT groups on the international stage, simply because they stand in opposition to bigger bads. These attitudes have never been hidden, and I have always thought they were expressed and supported with a startling lack of nuance and consideration for the people who are actually injured by them.

    • I think you are close to getting it but not quite.

      the online leftist community views LGBT issues in the context of this geopolitical campism

      Most of the online left oppose, say, Russia's LGBT laws. Do we think its grounds for invading Russia? No, bombs do not discriminate against queers, transgender people will be drafted and forced to detransition, supply lines for necessary medicine for trans people are disrupted, if that is the cause of war there will be pogroms, etc.

      Nutomic and ilk like him are ultimately not very ideological and not very well read. They like a corner of a pretty picture but do not see the whole, these people should not be given any position over others.

110 comments