my main problem is I compare life now to in the US in the 50's through 90's instead of the dark ages.
94When I do that, I think about medicine in general and dentists in particular. Our age wins here. Though I don't know, maybe regular folks in the US can't afford medical and dental help, so it doesn't matter to them.
20Yeah I don't see much change dental wise. Its again sorta gotten bad since 2000. Flouridation had a big effect but finding an independent dentist as a doctor whose main interest is the health of your teeth and mouth seems to be harder and harder. Now we have these corp things that feel shady as fuq. The US is a bit strange in that we had obamacare and like right after things got much better but then the mandate was kicked out and that upset the balance of pay with insurance companies and then we allow corps to own insurance and provider and pharmacy and hospitals. but then biden got the no surprise billing thing. its been a bit of ping pong but since the millenium. I mean technical advances always are better as time goes by but of course if they are not available or guaged so much they are not (something as basic as insulin) thats not really better.
3
I would imagine that those starving bricklayers in Africa know the value of what they have, are grateful to have it, and would gladly share it with anybody they felt needed it more than them. Their life is probably difficult at times — whose isn’t? — but they have family, friends, and community who look out for them, because in the end they know they have nothing without each other.
72I have read in the past that depression is very rare in Africa.
14While there often is more connection, and this probably does help, mental health data coming out of much of Africa (although generalizing the whole content together also isn't great) is still very unreliable as a result of corruption, lack of education, and religious fanaticism. For example, suicides are often hidden, or said to be the result of the supernatural, sometimes genuinely, sometimes because the family doesn't want to lose face.
4
BS. They literally risk their own and their children’s life to emigrate to somewhere where they have a fighting chance not to starve. Like crossing the Atlantic Ocean in dinghies
10I have no doubt that there are those who wish to (and do) emigrate to other countries for more opportunities. I also have no doubt that there are those who stay and are happy living the lives they have, despite being impoverished. They are not mutually exclusive.
6Are you thinking of Cuba?
5
Alienation from labor and isolation from your community cannot be solved through pleasure and consumption
66... Bet.
2
Productivity has risen as well. Anon likely has a mind-nunbing job that produces more economically in a year than a village or two of those ancestors would have.
Keynes famously predicted in 1930 that his grandchildren would only need a 15 hour workweek as technology would allow people to work less. Many others predicted similar throughout the 1900's. When you look at a household perspective, Keynes was writing in a time when huge populations of women were expected not to work already.
What we see now is that it is incredibly rare for multi-adult households to have singular incomes. For the household, the 40 hour workweek might have actually grown to 80. Or more, as individuals engage in gig work or get 2nd or 3rd jobs. Plus forced overtime is becoming an issue, and of course wage theft.
Wages have stagnated while productivity has increased. Pensions (and unions) are gone (at least in the US). Inequality is constantly increasing - the rich use their power to get richer while the poor are stuck getting poorer.
Anon mentions his freedoms, but neglects to mention he probably spends 50 or more hours a week either working, on break from work, getting ready, commuting. He cannot criticize his employer publicly. An arrest and a night or two in jail could throw him into poverty. Unless, of course, he is rich enough that he doesn't need to work, in which case simply tossing his name around with he police can often get him out of any trouble.
He mentions healthcare - US life expectancy not, and I do not believe has ever been, 90 years. Maybe for ultra-wealtjy women? Currently the average is 76 years for the whole country. But even then, women live longer than men, and the top-1% of income earners live almost 15 years longer than the bottom-1%. . So if anon is a low-income male, his life expectancy may be in his mid-60's. Which is comparable to the average life expectancy of the late 1700's- early 1900's in Europe.
He has a lot of fancy toys at his disposal, but his life is still being consumed by the wealthy in power.
60US life expectancy not, and I do not believe has ever been, 90 years.
Closer to 80, but even then that's tilted by youth mortality and chronic health issues (and race and height and gender). But if you're going strong after the age of 30, you've got much better odds of making it to 90 than an infant who hasn't survived through some of the most dangerous years to be alive. If you're old enough to be shitposting on 4chan, you're probably doing well enough to at least think about making it that far.
Anon mentions his freedoms, but neglects to mention he probably spends 50 or more hours a week either working, on break from work, getting ready, commuting. He cannot criticize his employer publicly. An arrest and a night or two in jail could throw him into poverty. Unless, of course, he is rich enough that he doesn’t need to work, in which case simply tossing his name around with he police can often get him out of any trouble.
"Anon" is appropriate. It really is security through obscurity for a lot of Freedom Loving Americans. You're not protected because you've got rights and freedoms. You're protected because nobody considers your stupid shitposts to be worthy of their time. You're non-threatening not free.
As soon as police or management or some national security goon thinks you're a clear and present danger, the game changes significantly.
He has a lot of fancy toys at his disposal, but his life is still being consumed by the wealthy in power.
One might even argue the toys he has were created to distract and alienate him from his peers and neighbors.
8Nobody said he is US... we even have some job security here.
1
Look up Maslow's Hierarchy.
Anon is enjoying every creature comfort the planet has to offer, but they are still missing the entire top half of this pyramid. And you need that to be happy.
Edit: to anyone returning to this thread.
It's easy to see how the worst mechanisms in our society cut into this model. Not having enough money for basic needs, being too isolated, or not having enough time to yourself, are all issues that track through the very shape of our society and employment issues in general. I don't have answers for everyone. But it sure is easy to spot the problems.
What I do know is that it's important to keep trying to fight for your best life and don't settle for long if your needs aren't being met. Also, invest in people power even if you have money. After all, you can't buy friendships, it takes time to build them, you actually need other people to be completely happy, and it's probably the best safety net you can get.
52thats fucking wild how we live in the same country and yet the top half of this pyramid is ALL i have
14Man it's wild that I have only really every had the top and the bottom of that pyramid and even then not always.
I wonder what it feels like to have a full sense of self, if anyone even actually has one.
3What I'm doing wrong? I have the top two and 1/2, and I'm missing most of the bottom half? (I'm basically standing on a glass strand, which is constantly on verge of collapsing)
2Funny I used to have those things but then someone that acts like they are God fucked with my life.
0
Royalty had agency and power. Anon is just doing the movements, but can't sculpt the future.
48Also it's a bit naive to think royalty didn't have their fair share of depression and mental illness
3
Hunter gathers (which human are from an evolutionary perspective) worked 4 hours a day and would have had a lot of exercise.
They were around similar, closely related people, with a united culture and strong community.
Their form of stress would have been "oh fuck a bear. Let's get away". "Wow remember when we spend 10 minutes this week stressed about a bear"
Humans work a shit load, including getting ready for work. Don't have time to sleep enough. Human society is largely devoid of anything that it should be, not enough of the stuff that mattered and too much of everything else. Low level stress is constant.
46I'm sure they also had community infighting, gossiping, feelings of unfairness, jealousy etc. You know like all humans in all parts of history.
They also had a short lifespan where a broken leg, bad tooth or infected cut could kill you. Not to take away from what you wrote but to add that it probably wasn't as ideal of a life as we may think.
9I'm not on about ideal.
It's about what we are built for.
Like you could say no suffering, i.e. no physical exertion is ideal. But we know physical exertion is good.
Maybe all the shit we had to deal with back then was good for us, or okay for us. But the bad things for us now are mentally much worse, even though they don't seem as bad.
Like maybe occasionally being starving and coming together as a community then later having a feast and everyone being super happy is mentally better than you stressing out because you were planning to make chicken nuggies and chips, then watch TV alone but you forgot to stop in the store on the way home.
5
Which can be summarized by "we work too much"
5
Can relate. On our coast we have some of the most laid back village people in the world, yet here in the city with all our amenities we get upset with dumb things like people making noise in the tennis court across from our condo. Priorities are shot.
40Because you spend most of your life working, you have meaningless sex without forming emotional connections or freinds, even if you did you spend too much time at work to enjoy their company, then what little free time you actually get, you squander it doomscolling or engaging with the crab-brains on 4chan, or playing games that make you angry and in the process constantly consume media to desperately try and eek out some good chemicals from you completely fried neurons and never give them a break.
36or, you stay outside the system, nibbling off of whatever jobs you can find around the industry of your professional focus, but never committing to any of the big players, hoping to retain some shred of a soul but also knowing... the jobs they'd offer would come with hooks that would drive me nutso and eventually out.
bah. the only way to avoid this is to avoid interacting with it. it fucks up my ability to progress professionally but those who know my work are enthusiastic to put me to work, within those constraints.
:|
4
Well, for a start, 90% of young men can't relate to the first one. That is a major and growing problem
35What can we do to solve it?
7As someone who formerly suffered from that problem I think a big part of the issue is that the world is incredibly isolating and alienating, so you get stuck in your head and can't just talk to people normally. We need to stop creating suburbs that act like prisons for developing minds. We need more third places. And we need to find some way of teaching people to have healthy relationship-building interactions with other people without making anyone feel unsafe.
30Have guys who post dick picks add those pics to their dating profile
2
It's fairly easy to see the problem here: The dude has way too many obligations.
Most people would be happy just to go to a beach and poke the sand with a stick. The privileges of "upper middle class" are the real schackels preventing people from going to the beach.
33All the luxuries of the world, but vanishingly little time to indulge in them.
25The lack of purpose my dude
23Who told u kings from the past, and bricklayers in africa are not depressed ?
18"I have all these materialist things and still not happy"
16Yeh, this absolutely hits the nail on the head. Good summary.
5
You need some sort of goal in life, and anon doesn't sound like he has one. Most any positive goal will do, just get one
16Yeah just get one of the life goal market, something is gonna make sense eventually right haha
14You can always contribute to the great project of figuring things out.
Or find anyone you even slightly admire and help them do their thing.
6Are you doing okay? You didn't sound alright
-1
Yeah anon sounds like he's fallen into the ‘what is masculinity’ trap of trying to fulfill all goals he’s told by other men to do or an idea of men and doesn’t understand why he himself is unfulfilled. He only knows the idea of man and never became his own friend enough to understand what might make his self more satisfied. This is why many if the happiest people have simple things they are happy about. They don’t fall for the money = happiness trap or other stupid roles that society brainwashes into people. The main complication is just getting comfortable enough with self to speak ‘hey maybe gardening/cooking is my thing’ or whatever. We’re taught to over complicate our happiness.
2
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
Also, from an existentialist point of view, we're inundated by so many choices that almost nothing could satisfy us. We're always seeking more. Here is a quote from Soren Kierkegaard:
Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; marry or don’t marry, you will regret it either way. Laugh at the world’s foolishness, you will regret it; weep over it, you will regret that too; laugh at the world’s foolishness or weep over it, you will regret both. Believe a woman, you will regret it; believe her not, you will also regret it… Hang yourself, you will regret it; do not hang yourself, and you will regret that too; hang yourself or don’t hang yourself, you’ll regret it either way; whether you hang yourself or do not hang yourself, you will regret both. This, gentlemen, is the essence of all philosophy.
16Alienation moment
13You've unlocked the American Dream!
13I don't believe the first claim, but other than that he has a point.
12Meh if he's hooked up with 5 people over his whole dating career, and each happened to be of a different ethnic background, then there's a pretty good chance the variety statement is true. Hell, even one, of a different background than your own would probably beat most medieval royalty
13Even if it's someone who isn't in your own family you beat a lot of them
3
First thing to do: Do not go on social media. Second thing to to: Consume less news.
Do not thank me later as it would require you to browse social media.
Also, do whatever if you feel fine.
12diet of kings, but we are all alone now
7so are kings btw
"it's lonely on the top", ever heard that?
1i mean sure, but is that what we want?
1
Life is nothing without struggle
6I upvoted your comment but as I always say, man fuck this BS life and it's stupid fuckin rules
1
hedonism does not lead to life satisfaction?? do people know this??!!
5You have nothing to distract yourself
4Let him know I'm willing to trade places.
3It's just chemistry, it barely has anything to do with what is actually going on in your life or how much you appreciate it.
-1Do you think environmental factors have no effect whatsoever?
2They have an effect on the chemistry, but for the most part, if you are depressed, you will be depressed no matter how good of a day or month or year you have. Depression doesn't happen because you did something to cause it. And it doesn't stop from just having a good time.
4
Does Anon think immigrants bring produce with them?
-3Immigrants bring their culture (and thus, cuisine)
7That's not something that's unique to modernity, but sure.
0
Sure, that happened. Stupid greentext.
-6Permanently Deleted
-7
