China's EVs are fueling a big oil demand slowdown
China's EVs are fueling a big oil demand slowdown
Oil demand in China has slowed markedly this year amid the countrys shift to electric vehicles and natural gas, Goldman Sachs analysts said
Good.
62I'm all for giving credit where credit is due.
54I wouldn't take it too strongly yet.
Actually fueling a car is only something like 60 - 80% of the total carbon cost. Rest is manufacturing and disposal. Evs hold considerable costs (carbon, waste, human suffering) in terms of manufacturing and disposal, and only really pay off if their power is created in sustainable ways - otherwise you're just pushing the problems out of sight.
-17Now I’m going to go off on some non sourced reporting here because it was given to me in a car-radio news, but the pollution caused by the construction is about equal if not a little more, but different; in terms of EV’s than ICE. However the expected lifetime use of a EV is expected to make up for that and more to a end result of less than half at a minimum before needing disposal. By your own argument you are aware the vast amount of emissions are from the ICE use itself.
Speculation: with new battery technology increasing over time, that lifetime gap may even increase.
This is all of course if you’re arguing in good faith and are willing to also recognize the difference between generalized ‘pollutants’ and environmental impacts and carbon impacts.
8China's energy grid is about 80% fossil fuels. Assuming their energy mixture remains unchanged (a bad assumption as their coal usage is on the decline) it would take about 65,000 miles for an EV's carbon output to break even with an equivalent ICE vehicle.
The waste and suffering involved in carbon intensive fuels is ongoing instead of being single event. One benefit of renewable tech is the recyclability of it's components. Once we're made the battery it can be recycled and died not require ongoing extractive mining forever.
EVs have a place in a just future and can do some good at this time. Alternatives to cars are still a far more important and uncomplicated solution to our climate problems
6
They sort of bury the lede by only mentioning it once in the tagline. Their consumption is also down because there is a massive widespread shift to using CNG/LNG in industrial vehicles/transport trucks instead of diesel, which is a majority driver of oil consumption in China's production-based economy.
43True, but IIUC, the energy/mass of carbon might be better than diesel.
7You are right, according to the Wikipedia:
CNG/LNG:CNG's energy density is the same as liquefied natural gas at 53.6 MJ/kg.
About 86.1% of diesel fuel mass is carbon, and when burned, it offers a net heating value of 43.1 MJ/kg as opposed to 43.2 MJ/kg for gasoline.
7It also burns ridiculously cleaner as it does not have the typical long hydrocarbons and sulfur/metal contaminants that otherwise turn into air pollution. It's a smart choice in the short term.
5
Fueling a slowdown? Doesn't sound right.
25That headline is a race track that leads to a brick wall.
11
I need a car because I live in a semi-rural area outside city limits the nearest public transportation would be a 2-mile walk including crossing a four-lane highway. I'm under no illusions that driving an EV will solve climate change, but boy would I like to never have to fill my car up in the middle of an Indiana February again.
18I had coworkers that had all electric EVs (both had nissan leafs) 5 years ago and they both said it was like 7 dollars a month as a daily 60 mile per day commuter.
Aside from Teslas (which are afaik impossible to repair) the estimate is that due to fewer moving parts the lifetime maintenance costs are 2/3 the cost of gas vehicles AND the vehicles are expected to last longer in general (no giant gas engine that needs to be rebuilt every 200,000 miles)
This is one place where like gas car companies see this and keep trying to kick the can down the road
11Today I sold my beloved 2008 Mini, partly because, while the engine was still completely sound at 130k miles (barring the turbo that blew up three years ago), the rest of the car was beginning to fall apart. One of the rear light clusters kept shorting, interior panels worked themselves loose, the AC stopped working, the self leveling mechanism in one of the headlights broke. And so on, and so on.
I’m genuinely sad that I had to let it go, but it was on the cusp of being a massive pain in the ass to sort out.
But that engine was still solid.
3
Why is Biz Insider so insistent on being cringe on top of being a worthless capitalist propaganda rag
13Why is the title written so badly. Can't journalists write a normal descriptive headline.
6The enemy of our enemy is... a lesser enemy
5Yeah I'm no fan of the CCP to put it mildly but they are doing great work when it comes to EVs and renewables as well from what I can tell. Good to call it out, would like to see some more competition from elsewhere but either way let's hope the trend continues or accelerates.
34
Oh, you meant the Chinese.
28"The king is not England, and England is not the king!"
The PRC is not China, and China is not the PRC!
-11China is not the PRC
Tell that to the PRC.
6From a exterior perspective China is not it's people. It's people are silenced. China's words and actions are only those of the leadership. It would be wonderful if we heard the voice of the people when dealing with China. Sadly we have to deal with their subjugators.
6Yeah, the king is a nice guy looking after us idiots!
2
Another benefit to the sanctions against Chinese EVs - gotta protect those oil profits!
3Good, I may not care about climate that much but I never liked the oil barons
-3Thats a strange thing to say. Even if the changes havent been dramatic where you live, it certainly will with time if we dont limit the damage done.
3Same thing for example with animals. If you just post online on TikTok or twitter oh poor critters while eating meat or wearing fur and not doing anything that means you don’t care. So I prefer not lying to myself about it. I don’t care.
Workers rights in third world countries same thing. Didn’t do a single wallet voting? Then it means I don’t care. I am not going to virtue signal for fake points or clout. Action is caring, words are worthless deception, most often self-deception.
1Is it clear what I am trying to convey? What I mean is all those communities like collapse or the like on Reddit they don’t really care about climate, poverty or any of it. They just use them to solve their mental health problems. Shift the blame and responsibility from themselves.
Those who care are aplenty though probably not enough and are doing various volunteering work.
1Social media greatest tragedy is giving us the illusion that we are doing something. That we care.
No. If you care you do. If you don’t do - you don’t care, you are just lying to yourself that you do.You just cannot handle the reality of not being such a good, caring person as you imagine yourself to be hence you write a post on twitter, you read an article, you press the like button. It’s easy. Bam your precious self image is saved.
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