2y ago

Capitalism Breeds Innovation

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Capitalism itself rarely invents new things, but it does optimize existing things quite well
Though what it tries to optimize it for isn't always what is best for the consumer
- Chicken sandwiches used to be so much better. Now it occasionally feels like I'm biting into a tire. I don't understand this business strategy.
  
  Its simple, capitalism treats the consumer like cattle, and the optimization of profit drives them to replace real quality products with cheaper and cheaper substitutes over time until you're expected to bite into that tire and go "wow, this chicken is delicious"
  
  I just broke into the fast food chain's headquarters to find the secret formula. Next year's recipe is going to be this between two buns:
  
  I don’t understand this business strategy.
  You still bought it and they saved money. Profit!
  
  Woody breast syndrome?
  
  Woody breast syndrome
- Capitalism is also highly adept at taking the credit for the inventions and innovations of talented engineers and other scientists.
  (Pictured: a now dead deadbeat dad/marketer/capitalist who never invented anything, but sure did enjoy wearing turtlenecks)
  
  Steve Wozniak: makes hardware and writes the software
  Steve jobs:
  
  I can't find it anymore, but there was an excellent Youtube vid or podcast about the components and integrations of an iPhone and how almost none of them were new inventions even though their particular use was patented by Apple, and they were in fact mostly publicly funded projects! University grants, AR&D defense contracts, infrastructure allocations, open source, etc.
  GPS, touchscreen, LCDs, cell networks, HTTP, GPS, IMUs, basically every file format on the thing aside from distribution formats, much of the SDK and the foundations of the IDE.
  Capitalism does not foster innovation. It fosters opportunism. The public sector takes the 1-in-a-million risk inventing something like HTTP, and carefully nurses small saplings into a sprawling fruit-bearing orchard, then the private sector comes along and harvests it, taking credit for inventing the apple. (Pun intended)
- Capitalism only ever optimizes along the "maximum profitability for the seller" axis, and buyers only ever benefit if there is a ton of competition and it's a low brand recognition domain (otherwise the profitavility optimization mostly just ends up influencing marketing, not price or quality) and only ever whilst said situation lasts (the profit optimization will also tend to end high-competition low brand recognition situations if possible as that's not optimal for profitability).
  Optimization is only a guaranteed good thing for those who benefit ftom what is deemed the optimal state or direction of improvement and in Capitalism that's the ones taking the profits.
- Capitalism itself rarely invents new things
  I don't know that it even makes sense to say that capitalism (or socialism, or communism) invented something, but it seems fair to say that most of inventing we've seen in the modern world was done in a capitalistic system.
  
  Sure, it's not really the economic model itself doing the inventing, but people like to say that there couldn't be any innovation under any economic model but capitalism.
  But more often than not, new technologies come from universities since investing in potential technologies is risky, it's much safer to invest in refining an existing one. Meanwhile universities are more willing to spend money on research for researchs sake
  Take the language models that are all the rage these days, the underlying technology was created at a university, then once it existed, companies took it and pretty much just made them bigger and more easily available
  Computers, screens, modern encryption, lithium batteries, the internet, touchscreens, wifi, i could go on. Your phone is pretty much just a pile of parts that were invented at an university, then made smaller, cheaper and assembled together by a company
  And while some of those university projects were also externally funded, it was usually state funded, usually for their military applications
- It does spread and apply new things fairly well though even if it doesn't invent them as much.

This is a dumb post
- Yeah. All of these chicken sandwiches tastes different, and I like having choices.
  It's like getting mad at different fast food restaurant for all selling hamburgers.
  
  Huh... good point, i didnt think about it like that, and it kinda does bring the whole post down into something like "old man yells at cloud" kinda thing but with the twist being more like "Young snowflake yells at chicken burger".
  But i think the point being made in the meme its still valid, that being the chase for infinte grow doesnt really promote innovation, instead it just promotes copying what already works while not really improving the thing and not making peoples lifes better, and that they would rather do that than to invest into something that could make peoples lifes better because that wouldnt make as much money ore would be to risky, but i feel like this is more aplicable into artistic industries like movies and music or even with tech industries, while in gastronomy it really is just offers more variety, otherwise what? You would have to get the same chicken burger from the same corporation and thats monopoly and its bad. Probably a better example would have been with smartphones, specially the apple ones.
  Sorry for the rant btw, i just got al this realizations in my brain and had to dump them somewhere.
  
  Keep buying in to the illusion of choice, good little consumer.
- Yup, honestly food is a cornerstone of the human experience. Having different options and exploring different things is generally great.

Even though I disagree with the statement "capitalism breeds innovation", this is poor way to demonstrate that it's bullshit.
Of course a chicken sandwich isn't going to appear fundamentally different from Popeyes to KFC. They're also not the only items that these restaurants sell.
The idea is that these restaurants exist as some kind of better option over a local mom & pop sandwich joint with higher unit overhead. Whether or not the value proposition is sufficient for you is personal.
- It's also an example of something capitalism does well. Those chicken sandwiches are not interchangeable, and you can buy the one that best suits your taste and budget, plus competition generally keeps the quality pretty good.
  Capitalism ruins a hell of a lot of things that really matter, but not chicken sandwiches.
  
  Exactly. I'm as "last stage capitalism" as they come (okay maybe not extreme) but this image is a terrible take.
  All those varieties saw a market that demanded a product. Companies innovated and are selling the products and making a profit.
  I feel like the OP missed the point. A better example would be to show pure monopolies like ISPs. The fact we're paying hand over fist for subpar internet is an example of innovation not working.

See, unfettered capitalism is completely fucked, but this is a bad example. It would be like getting a bunch of different coffee brands and putting them together like this and saying the same thing.
Coffee is coffee.
Chicken Sandwiches are chicken sandwiches.
There are bigger issues with capitalism that are worth discussing instead
- While I agree with you, I think it's meant more symbolically but Lemmy being Lemmy everyone here is going to take it literally

I don't get it, how much can you possibly do to differentiate a chicken sandwich? There's plenty of issues to discuss but you can do better than this, come on.
- Fast food has a lot more competitive aspects than just the actual food, marketing, other unique products to draw customers in, location, branding, kitchen effiency, customer retention, franchising structure, ingredient sourcing. The public facing stuff is also the easiest to copy so that's why a lot of those things are similar.

What do you want when you order a chicken sandwich? Do you want them to give you a burger?
- Can't you see that OP wants a chicken sandwich when they order a chicken sandwich? /s

The fuck is this shit meant to mean?
- It's an illusion of choice. You've got eight different corporations spending billions of dollars in "Pick Me!" marketing campaigns, but its all just the same sad looking chicken sandwich.
  
  We can see in the pictures there are differences between the sandwiches though.
  It's also a chicken sandwich, there are limits to what can be done.
  
  that's not fair! our sandwich has a sauce that is formulated to be the closest we can get to chemically addictive without the FDA nuking our headquarters!
  
  "How dare there be more than 1 type of chicken sandwich! Under socialism there will be 1 chicken sandwich and people will be happy!"

They taste distinctly different. I like spicy chicken sandwiches so I've tried a couple of these. Burger King's tastes like they just slapped a bunch of ingredients together and wrapped it up. McDonald's actually tastes and feels like a chicken sandwich. Popeye's has a very buttery mouth feel, and the bun is a lot more flavorful and rich.
I get what the meme is trying to say, but this is a poor example of it.
- I will have to respectfully disagree on the McDonald's chicken sandwich. No idea how they made fried chicken taste so bland, but they did it.
  
  It isn't amazing, that's for sure.
- They're all terrible for you and made with diabetus.
  
  Yeah but they taste good sometimes! You're missing the point lol you want me to be healthy? That's actually pretty nice
  
  No shit, you're not supposed to eat this stuff all the time. The same could be said if you were making fried chicken sandwiches at home.

Capitalism is when burger

Considering they're all trying to copy Chick-fil-A’s sandwich, yes
- bigot chicken
- Well, pardner, gather 'round and let me spin ya a yarn about Wendy's spicy chicken sandwich. Now, this here sandwich, it ain't no newfangled creation. No siree, it's been around for a long time.
  Back in the days when the sun beat down on dusty trails and tumbleweeds rolled through the town, folks would mosey on over to Wendy's for a taste of that spicy chicken goodness. The sandwich had a kick to it, a real fiery flavor that could wake a sleepy cowboy right up.
  They say the recipe was a closely guarded secret, passed down through generations of Wendy's cooks. The chicken was crispy, the spices were just right, and the bun, well, it held it all together like a trusty steed on a rough ride.
  Folks from far and wide would ride in from all corners of the territory just to sink their teeth into one of them spicy chicken sandwiches. It became a legend in these parts, a symbol of good eatin' and a taste of the wild, wild west.
  So, next time you saunter on down to Wendy's and order yourself a spicy chicken sandwich, remember, you're tappin' into a taste of history, partner. It's been around for a long time, and it's still kickin' to this very day.
- I've always had a soft spot for Wendy's chicken sandwich and I can confidently say they didn't even try to change anything when the Great Chicken Wars started.
  Chic-Fil-A>Popeyes>McDonalds (spicy)>Wendys
- I don't think any of them are like Chick-fil-A. I like CFA's sandwich, but it tastes entirely different to me.
- I've got a hankering for some Chick-fil-A now.

Popeyes putting their fried chicken on Brioche with a decent sauce was an innovation, at least for fast food. It was sold out at most locations in CA when it launched. The BK and KFC both copied it.
- Popeye's is damn tasty. Very buttery feeling and the brioche is so good.

Capitalism takes innovation and beats the life out of it to flog the corpse for a quick buck. The thing that made KFC special wasn't the blend of herbs and spices (that they don't even fucking use anymore and you used to be able to buy ready mixed at the shops) it was the new innovative cooking technique that they immediately tossed in the trash because it was cheaper to just throw it all in a deep frier like everyone already did.

I think you're all missing the point, half of these places were known for hamburgers, the other half for whole pieces of fried chicken. They all ended up with slight variations on the same product. The point isn't that they should've innovated the chicken sandwich it's that they all ended up with the same product, the opposite of innovation in a market full of restaurants.
- In the real world, people often eat in groups. Some overlap is to be expected, especially when what is really being sold isn't a chicken sandwich, it's addictive convenient food.

Maybe it's because this is posted in c/politicalmemes but I think y'all are thinking to deeply about something that should be a mild chuckle and then moving on.

Yup it really sucks we don't get good EVs because so far all the legacy automotive companies want to keep on making ridiculous SUVs.
- I think we already have good EVs, variety will increase. Happy owner of a Polestar 2 speaking.
  The silly range anxiety is what's fueling larger vehicles at the moment, even though 90% of users could do with smaller capacity smaller EVs.
  
  Even hybrids are better options than "war may break out at any moment and I need to be ready in my Hell-scape assault" truck.
  
  Meh I would love some of the more affordable models to hit we need to relax Tariffs to allow for more choice, and more affordable batteries, because the US is trying to manifest a battery industry out of thin air, and the players that have the more innovative products aren't getting funding. I like how the Chinese are able to buy as much car as they can afford with the amount of volume
- Sir, this is a Wendy's
  
  Or maybe it's a Chick-fil-A. Who can tell anymore?
  
  There are few memes I actively dislike. This is one of them. Like, where's the joke? Am I supposed to laugh at a remark that annoying nazi kid in your class make because they think it makes them look smart? Like even the base premise is abusive and shitty.

Popeye's blackened spicy is by FAR the superior spicy chicken sandwich.

And to all the libertarians present: This would be even worse if things were totally unregulated.
- Why is this bad?
  
  There is no innovation; everyone is just copying everyone else. And this is with current regulations. Without them, even more blatant copying trying to capitalize on others success would be much more prevalent. Not to mention all the false advertising and straight up scams.

It breeds it in the same way breed means to consumate offspring i.e. to have sex, wich is coloquially know as fuck
Ergo: Capitalism fucks innovation

Am I the only one who thinks the Popeyes sandwich is the greasiest fuckin thing ever? Everyone raved about it but I couldn't finish it, I really gave it an honest try. It was gross.

That Popeyes sandwich is lit tho...

All of these taste completely different
- You must eat a lot off ass to say that
  
  Holy shit that's hilarious.
- I'm not afraid to say I LOVE the Popeye's version.

This is a bad example. Each of them taste different. I would prefer KFC than McDonald's burger any day.

This capitalism is making me hungry.

Some have pickles. Others have lettuce. The system works. /s

The KFC Double Down exists though

The only thing this post did was make me hungry.

Capitalism breeds the lowest common denominator.
Innovation just get you to the point of being large enough to stop innovating and focus entirely on maximizing profitability which is done by maximizing your appeal to the lowest common denominator.
- Capitalism is the best known mechanism for wealth extraction.

I can only imagine how delicious some current fast food was at their original store locations before being chained out and degraded in quality.

Chicken is life.

I must be missing something here, because I've had Popeye's and it's just a chicken sandwich like all the others. It's not like they're making it from scratch like they would at some small business.
- Yeah, but the difference between the Popeyes chicken sandwich and the best chicken sandwich I've ever had is not a lot, and the difference between the Popeyes chicken sandwich and that overcooked piece of breaded leather from McDonalds is fucking lightyears.

Pelicana missing

I love the fact that there are people saying that all these are different and they love having that choice.
- Ngl some are shit and shouldn't even be considered chicken sandwiches.
- I love having all of these because if my wife wants x fast food I get x chicken sandwich all in one stop. Some of them are much much better than others. If you add "spicy" to it then the whole tier arrangement changes as well.
  But I really dont see why anyone is complaining that more places have good chicken sandwiches. Seems like an odd things to hate on IMO.

You could easily make a similar meme using cell phones and the "innovations" of everyone copying Apple (which often just copied someone else), especially on stuff that's stupid, like removing the headphone jack, gluing the back to make changing battery a hassle, thinness being good for whatever reason.

How are you support to innovate a sandwich? The only diffrence is the quality of taste, and even then it's still all fast food, so it's no less good/bad than the others.

Are you ok, Spongebob?

Chicken burgers are pretty solid though
- Marketing loves you.

I love the mobile game version of this because it shows how everyone just rips each other off. This is more of an example of food companies optimizing a tried and true formula.

Now show the chicken sandwich options available in North Korea
- More options isn't better

And only like two or three are even remotely good tasting.

Having lots of options for chicken sandwiches doesn't seem to be a problem with capitalism, and one could always decline to eat a chicken sandwich, or make your own. Wealth inequality and special interests controlling the government are much more of a problem.

So the general vibe I'm getting from the comments is that Pope's chick is simultaneously the best and worst chicken.

Listen, on the one hand, yes. On the other hand, I believe that Chick Fil A originally commercialized the fast food fried chicken sandwich, and their chicken sandwich sucks. So in this one specific instance, I am grateful.

So multiple companies selling their own version of a chicken sandwich = capitalism bad?

I swear to god the homophobia makes the chicken hit better at Chick-fil-A

The two things that fascinate me the most:
Someone actually bought all these different chicken burgers to put them in the same picture
People call these things 'sandwiches'. Wtf?
- Yes. A Chicken sandwich.
- I mean, a burger is actually a specific thing, not just any meat in any form between buns.
  
  In America maybe. In the rest of the world, a sandwich is something between two slices of bread. Something between two halves of a bun or roll is a 'roll' or a 'burger'.
  
  Yeah, that's a taco.

Only one of those is any good
- There's a Wendys in my area and their chicken Sandwich was pretty good! Not the best like Popeyes.
- When they first launched Zaxby's chicken sandwich was great. Massive breast, crispy breading, high quality bun, and well seasoned. The reality has since caught up with it.
  I make a mean chicken sandwich at home, by foregoing the traditional southern fried style for a katsu style.

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