The EVs the government really ought to be subsidizing are electric bicycles, not cars.
70Right? I wish more people would consider the product life cycle analysis of what they want to purchase. Virtue signaling doesn't help, and nor does more scrap ending up in a landfill at the end of the cradle to grave trip.
I'd love an E bike! It would be great to take the train into the city for me and use it to get around. I haven't been able to afford insurance and still don't have a driver's license. It'd save me a killing and allow me to actually save my money than have it guzzled up by gas, car maintenance, and overall way less hassle for me. I'd rather not have to worry about features eventually getting pay walled by the shitfotainment system...
11and mopeds, electric mopeds are fucking sweet.
7I'm pretty sure I'm going to buy one this next spring
2
Why? So they can oppress people who have mobility issues? Why is it that every single time some small brained Fuck Cars person posts, it's horribly and insultingly ableist?
-49Biking in the Netherlands, you regularly see people with different mobility devices riding in the bike lanes. That's because bike lanes are also for people with mobility issues. The "anti-car is ableist" argument is actually itself ableist because a lot of people with mobility issues actually can't drive either. Continued investment in car infrastructure vs bike infrastructure traps these people at home.
39If you gave a shit about people with mobility issues you'd know how dumb that statement is.
29Last year, my sister had her driver's license suspended because of a medical condition, but she's still perfectly capable of riding a bike. But the problem is our societal assumption of cars-for-all-whether-you-like-it-or-not means her neighborhood street design is extremely hostile to her getting around by bike safely, and it's way too sprawling and car-dependent to walk anywhere. There's also no public transit within a reasonable walking distance.
So I might ask you: Do you believe people like my sister deserve the same right to mobility as the rest of us? If so, why support a system that make life actively hostile to her and people like her? You act as if disabilities are a monolith, and that cars are only ever their saviors, as if cars are never the thing making life actively more difficult for many people.
25You do realize that cars and car centric infrastructure make it harder for disabled people to get places right? You do realize that public transport is infinitly more beneficial to the disabled than cars are right?
24What a pathetic attempt at trolling.
First of all, nothing I wrote was ableist and you fucking know it.
Second, you say that as if subsidizing cars isn't itself ableist, since there are plenty of disabled folks who can't drive and therefore rely on infrastructure that accommodates alternatives like transit and walking.
In reality, subsidizing biking doesn't affect the disabled in any way (except possibly to help them by encouraging better lanes and ramps that can be used by both bicycles and wheelchairs). In contrast, further subsidizing car-centrism very much hurts them and you damn well know it.
12Car infra is the most ableist thing in transportation you idiot.
Try being vision impaired and driving. Try being in a wheelchair and getting down the average American street. Try having a limp and crossing a large intersection in 20 seconds. Try being an entirely able bodied person and getting to the other side of a highway that cuts through your city.
2
Is this ai generated ? or is it just poorly photoshoped because there's a lot of texture detail missing from the image
Edit: it also looks like someone told it to make Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and it created a Asian-European version of her because the face seems to similar
48100% AI
32Yeah, I thought it was just over smooth, but fuuuck.
Look at 1st girls teeth in 1st pic. They get bigger from left to right, despite the camera angle. 3rd pic, normal size. Also. See the glasses bridge between 1&3, changes shape, weorrd spot in eye on 3
12
In the 2nd panel, her hand has 5 knuckles
16Look at the top right image. She has like 7 fingers
12"like 7" you mean 5?
1
I thought it was too smooth and the rearview mirror on the third image proved it. What are you doing there??? 😂
12I didn't even notice that, it's lie my mind intentionally ignored it because it was wrong
1
Her glasses change between panels
2
Electric cars are still a 3 ton object you'll needlessly try to dispose of in 5 years.
Electric cars are here to save the car companies, not the environment.
45Mine weighs 1.5 tons and is going strongly into it's sixth year of existence at about 95% capacity left. 3/4 of the year I'm driving it exclusively using power from my own roof. It uses about 14kWh/100km which is the equivalent of about 1.3 Liters of Gasoline. I fail to see how all of this is not an advantage.
425 years??? You change cars every 5 years?
19Me love traaaiins!
8Permanently Deleted
5It's actually spewing tire and brake particles everywhere. It's responsible for 30% of microplastics in our environment. It should not be anywhere near our main mode of transportation in the future.
5
1 word: Batteries
3
this user posts a suspicious amount of AI generated memes
41Yeah it's weird that they generated this, it distracted me from the meme itself
8The facial expressions always look wrong. Maybe it's an uncanny valley thing.
2
Not only does pink girl have 5 knuckles where one would expect to find only 4, but she's also somehow in the drivers seat at the same time as Glasses. And she's wearing her backpack while also seated.
Man, AI sucks.
3390+% of the AI generated content is just straight garbage.
I don't get why people are so obsessed with it to be honest.
13I got AI to generate an image very similar to a piece of digital artwork I did, based on a description. In the space of 10 or so seconds, it created something that looks much better than the piece that took me like 4 hours to do. And I think it really captured the mood and spirit of what I originally made.
I think AI can generate some really excellent pieces, sometimes it just takes a few regenerations and changes to your description prompt. Although it's not perfect, it's become pretty amazing IMO.
590% of everything is garbage. Sturgeon's law: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sturgeon's_law
2
Give it time, soon you won't be able to tell the difference and that is honestly the scary part.
2
AI generated memes are truly the nadir of comedy
30I don't drive a car, so where's my money for saving the planet? Where are my rebates for shoes and bikes?
Subsidizing the car industry is indeed dumb. I don't think it's hurting the economy though, as the goal is to continue to sell and replace millions of cars. Still, the infrastructure for cars is probably costing us much more on the long term though. Maintenance of expressways, space for parkings, and other infra for cars costs billions.
Just replacing a single expressway interchange in my city cost 4.3 billion! For ONE interchange.
So again, where are the rebates for people taking public transit? Where are the investments in public transit? Why is it only on the condition of BUYING A CAR?
29Worth noting that the recent Infrastructure bill passed under Biden includes $108 billion for public transportation (Link). This is much larger than the $7.5B set aside for electric vehicles.
As much as I despise our car-centric infrastructure, climate change is a large enough threat that we should seriously consider and pursue multiple avenues of decreasing our emissions as fast as possible. Fully transitioning away from auto-dominant transportation in the US is, frankly, not realistic in a timely manner with the public support and resources available. Not only will transportation infrastructure need changing, but even the design of our cities. So while we should pursue broader public transportation, we should also pursue other initiatives with high likelihood of broad acceptance and rapid implementation. Electric vehicles seems to be one such initiative.
16REI is leading an initiative to give tax incentives for electric bikes. Seems like they are the main voice behind it though and I don't dare to hope.
5There are absolutely incentives - tax credits and rebates - for buying electric bikes in some areas. My state is offering $500 off any ebike purchase.
The auto industry is not being subsidized by consumer incentives. The auto industry is being subsidized by tax credits whenever they build a new facility, which is still arguably dumb. Consumer incentives are designed to get the average citizen to buy an EV over an ICE vehicle. The consumer is gonna buy a car anyway - someone in the market for a car isn't going to buy a bike, even an ebike, based off of price. They're buying a mode of transportation based off of lifestyle. Many simply can't commute to work via bike or public transportation, and if a credit gets them to buy an EV over an ICE vehicle, this is a net benefit.
The solution to public transportation is not to attempt to disincentivize or punish car drivers, then build mass transit. Gotta build the mass transit first. The financial incentives for people taking mass transit are the fact that the most expensive mass transit in the US costs ~$1,500/year. The cost of owning an operating the average car in the US is ~$10,700/year. Yes, build more mass transit to free us from being slaved to expensive automobiles! But until then, preventing incentives for greener vehicles that would be purchased by those who have no choice is just shooting yourself in the foot.
2
both are destroying the environment https://www.thedrive.com/news/tire-dust-makes-up-the-majority-of-ocean-microplastics-study-finds
16We can deal with microplastics after greenhouse gases. They're nowhere near equally bad.
1
I bought a 2002 Honda insight. One of the first hybrids, except the electric motor went out, so it's all gas now. Still got slapped with an extra $150 so called "hybrid tax" so the state can subsidize a lower usage of gas that they would have received tax on. Literally incentivizes gasoline vehicles. What the fuck?
15That's a badly designed piece of legislation.
13It's blatant corruption working perfectly as designed.
10
At least you’re getting 50+ MPG. I want a ZE1 insight so bad…
1
imagine how many e-bikes you could buy for $7500
12three good ones
16My first one was $400, and still works just fine, I just left it in another state. The one I have now was $1200. Admittedly I got the first one for a steal in 2018, and prices have more than doubled since then.
$2500 gets you the top of the line, not just a good E-bike.
2
2.5/10.
Not a strong effort.
12Someone explain who's the good lad here?
8That, and also why it looks (and possibly is) generated by an AI?
18No it isn’t, it’s perfectly normal to have the rearview mirror on the side window
17Because it’s cheap and ubiquitous
4
Off? That's not how tax credits work
6Though there are governments who give you money
2
Post is funny, but AI memes are weird
1I swear, every time I hear this “cars are killing the economy” shit, it’s from some no-car-having-ass twat that’s going to ask me for a ride later that afternoon
-3strawman
Also, the government didn't "give" you $7500 "because it's electric." You got a tax rebate because of the bargaining of the UAW.
-6The rebate was in place and the UAW was negotiating to only have it apply to American made cars. That's not the same as them creating it.
Source me to change my mind.
15UAW ruining thing with their protectionism😔
3
But the rebate has been in place for about a year now. UAW strike just started
3TIL the UAW didn't exist until last month
4
Electric cars are actually bad for the American economy though…
Each one takes less labor to build and the overwhelming majority of factories capable of producing ev batteries are overseas.
So while we can make evs domestically with less labor we now have fewer jobs and one of the most expensive parts of the car is being imported anyway, exerting downward pressure on the domestic workers in assembly.
So every electric car that replaces an internal combustion car is reducing the gdp in measurable terms.
Not that gdp is a good measure, but there’s a hard undeniable kernel of truth to the statement that electric cars are bad for the economy and specifically in a way that hurts working class Americans most.
-8You sound like an economist. They cost less to build and maintain. Which means the money is freed up to do other things. Only an economist would want to bailout inefficiency.
6What will that money be doing?
how are the ostensible productivity gains from evs going to be used to help american workers?
it's hard to believe that the reduced demand for skilled tooling, die and machining labor will translate into some kind of gain for the communities and people that rely on that work to survive.
and we've seen how anemic reskilling efforts are and how the usual boilerplate response, "learn to code", is completely defunct with the combination of LLMs and the cheap overseas junior dev labor pool.
american conservatives are trotting out these arguments to appeal to people who feel like they're being forced to give up their lifestyle (driving cars with cheap gas), and materially are actually being heavily pressured to get evs without fully understanding the economics of this new class of Second Most Expensive Thing Most Americans Will Ever Buy, but that doesn't mean that the realities that appeal is built on aren't there.
-1
Permanently Deleted
1They’re planning on building four, and they paused construction recently as a power play in negotiations when the uaw said battery workers should get the same pay as the machinists.
I saw that those plants will be making batteries for the new f150, not the much smaller evs that everyone else drives.
Battery manufacture is part of its own can of worms though, and one that doesn’t make evs look great either.
I wanna also say that I’m not against spinning down the ice auto industry, but no one who’s suggesting doing that or making fun of people who recognize that it’s the consequence of things that are already happening has a real plan for it.
2
You want to know how I know this isn't true?
Because if it were, the big car makers would be rushing the hell out of pushing for killing off ICE cars and switching to 100% EVs like yesterday.
But yet most of them have put out a mediocre effort at best, offering maybe 2 models to attract the younger market. And even then, good luck actually getting one. You are on a wait list for at least a year, have to deal with dealerships that haven't bothered to learn anything about them, and if they do miraculously have one on the lot, they've been using it as a loaner car, so it's not even brand new. And while I was shopping around, I ran into multiple instances of the dealership taking the $7500 tax credit for themselves(because the tax credit is tied to the car, not to you buying it) and then having the gall to also mark up the sticker price, "due to high demand".
Then other brands have basically outright resisted making them, or will make them, but it seems like they are only doing it to say they are going green. They'll make like 2000 of the the dopeyiest looking car they can and trickle them out, make no effort to advertise them or mass produce them in any meaningful way. Then claim, "the demand just isn't there".
Like if what you said was true, we would be seeing things like dodge challengers, Ford mustangs(ones that actually look like a mustang, not just a crossover with a horse logo), dodge rams, Ford f150s(yes these exist, but they are trickleing them out, so good luck getting one), jeep Wranglers. Nobody is taking their tried and true cars and making them electric. Well VW is, but not in America with things like the golf and GTI lines.
1I’m gonna go backwards here:
We don’t see lots of high drag coefficient evs that look like mustangs because all the features of the mustang that make it look boxy and aggressive are there to accommodate the reality of making air go places it’s needed, across the radiator and into the engine.
We don’t see ev jeeps because jeeps are (or used to be) relatively lightweight, high torque vehicles whose design choices favor ground clearance over aerodynamics. Evs are relatively heavyweight and benefit most from low ground clearance and good aerodynamics.
When automakers try to put those designs in an ev buyers react negatively to them, to the point that they have to have ersatz engine noise to be accepted.
Indeed the wrangler and mustang are so disconnected from normal buying trends that they kept stick shift long after the industry wide move to automatics!
Those are popular models, but they’re extreme outliers in terms of design.
Let me address the top part of your reply with a question: if evs are so great and such a slam dunk why has Toyota, famous for not making the wrong choices, stuck with hybrids up until very recently?
0
