2y ago

Google is ruining the entire web

99 comments

I can't wait to have to download a crack for my browser so a website thinks that my browser is using wei and no-adblock.
- Just use Firefox. I don't understand why people are so hell-bent on using a Chromium-based browser.
  EDIT: I see now that I was grossly misinformed on the issue. Thanks for the replies.
  
  A few of us sitting and using Firefox while Google is suggesting being able to control what computer you use, what software is installed, what plugins you are allowed to have?
  This is a very big threat not solved by using Firefox.
  
  Because the browser choice has nothing to do with what Google is trying to achieve with the DRM thing.
- Right. I mean there's always going to be a way. Your open source browser can run a spoof of an "official" browser, present itself as a valid user, load the page with all the ads and tracking in a sandbox in between, strip all of it out and serve you the actual content.
  Or maybe people will eventually be fed up and we'll start our own internet completely out of corporate control.
  
  Your open source browser can run a spoof of an “official” browser
  Not if the server requires the digital signature of a challenge to be produced by a key whose certificate is signed by a "trusted" third party, said third party only providing that key at runtime, if your browser can also provide the same kind of authorization from the OS, itself being only able to produce it if it can safely determine that it's running on completely locked-down hardware AND having online-activated DRM tells him he can provide such key; the hardware itself requiring constant online connexion to ensure it's "authorized", and including yet another layer of keys in hardware.
  There's been progress toward this kind of things. At every step, people warning about the risks are seen as lunatics. SecureBoot preventing booting a custom kernel? No problem, microsoft will sign your keys. TPM not delivering keys to non-trusted kernels? No problem, just don't use it (and don't get the keys, obviously). UEFI requiring digital signature to be flashed? It's for your safety, but we won't give you the keys or it would defeat the purpose. Embedded CPU inside your CPU running opaque code on every operation you do? Trust me bro, there's no problem here.
  Sure, opensource (or even just open at this point) alternative will most likely remain available as a niche, but once all major services that people want requires such a chain of control, the vast majority of people will gladly flock to locked-down system. Heck, it's already happening. Nowadays I can't even log into my bank website without a trusted iOS or Android device. The "free, open" alternative will be rare, expensive, and only work for people that cares. Which is not too much sadly.
  
  Reject modernity, return to Gemini
  
  I hear web3 is a decentralised web.

Maybe the thing to do here, when web sites start enforcing this, is to swamp them with support requests. Don't write a screed or manifesto with ethical or technical reasons why this is wrong. Pretend to be a non-technically-inclined user and tell them you've spent hours trying to get it to work and your browser keeps throwing up errors you don't understand. They will ignore the principles, but if they think the technology is "too hard" for their "dumb users," that might carry more weight.
- I don't think this will work. If companies can get away of slapping us by doing "please use Google Chrome or other Chromium-based browsers" just because Google implements the most niche, probably privacy-last, feature ever, then they will get away with it this time, again.
  
  I literally can't log into the Amtrak Android app unless I have Chrome installed. It strictly relies on Chrome custom tabs. Other browsers that support custom tabs don't work.
  I cannot imagine any reason for this except sheer ineptitude.
  Guess what Amtrak support told me when I reported this as a bug?
  
  That's what we thought about VBScript, and Active X and Shockwave Flash, and Silverlight, at different points in the history of the Internet.
  Adobe and Microsoft have both wrecked hard (at their peak) in their attempts to close and DRM the Internet.
  Looks like it's Googles turn to find out if they have the clout to manage it.

The free internet is bad for Google.
- Okay I wasn't expecting to be attacked like that.

Secutity is not priotity.

Never forget: https://contrachrome.com/

So what can we do? Egg their headquarters? Because so far our useless politicians haven't passed bills to fight this.
- It'd help if the government wasn't run by a bunch of ancient humans that were there when cavemen would draw on cave walls. The government has shown time and time again they don't understand tech but always try to act like they do. Take that tiktok case for example. They made themselves look like idiots to the USA. Pathetic.
  
  The worse problem is the corruption more than the age.
  
  I think the moment for me was when they had Mark Zuckerberg himself, testify to Congress.
  They didn't "grill him" as media would've liked to have you believe. The guy danced around all of Congress because they themselves didn't know a damn thing about what he was saying. Of course he wasn't penalized and got off scot-free.
  Just like every other tech company. The FTC, has no teeth. The FCC, has no teeth. Congress, has no brain.
- Use forks or other browsers than chrome.
  
  Using browsers other than Chrome wouldn't work if websites implement it.
- It's already too late. Google has a monopoly on the browser market. Do you think your regular normie would continue to use Firefox if Netflix, Instagram, TokTok etc. don't work anymore?
  There is nothing we can do. The internet of old is already lost.
  
  That is exactly what we feared about Internet Explorer 6.
  The complete strangle hold of IE6 on the Internet is why I posted this from Edge (IE12ish) and why you're all reading this comment on Edge as well. /s
  It's too late for Google Chrome even. There's nothing but IE6, and it will never die. /s

More DRM. Browsers already support DRM schemes for media playback.

Not overly worried - the EU anticompetition laws will swat this down on this side of the atlantic - but not sure about the US
- The US will welcome it with open arms. Because of course, America.
  
  I hate to correct your mostly correct comment, but we ask that you spell it "'Cuz, 'Murica!!"
  Thanks.

That's not a WEB browser, that's a Googleverse browser.
- Also sounds like you're describing a Chromebook. Which, incidentally, schools seem to be abandoning because of the fact that they become useless on a predetermined date.
  
  They become useless on a predetermined date? What do you mean?

They’re adding DRM? In what way?
- Basically by allowing websites to refuse to load unless the browser the operating system running the browser promises that the user isn't allowed to know what the computer is doing. And Google super duper promises this won't be used for evil.
  https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/googles-web-integrity-api-sounds-like-drm-for-the-web/
  
  allowing websites to refuse to load unless the browser the operating system running the browser promises that the user isn’t allowed to know what the computer is doing
  So they won't support Linux anymore?
  
  Yeah, I’m sure they fucking do lol Glad I use a combination of it, Firefox, and Opera GX now to diversify
- You can read a little about it here
  I also encourage you to look at the GitHub...be warned that there are some quite angry folks on there
  
  Understandable lol
- https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/07/googles-web-integrity-api-sounds-like-drm-for-the-web/

where linux
i know google sucks but still
- Android

They already did it with site doing SEO for Google's algorithmic dark patterns.

One of the four authors of the proposal is on my mastodon instance. How ironic (and kinda embarrassing).

That was the plan all along.

I'm ok with sites using WEI as an alternative to captcha, but if any site tries to fail closed on WEI I will be first in line to join the DDOS.
- To be clear - even in that world, not having WEI would make you much more suspicious than a 'normal' user, so you're effectively describing every Firefox and/or Linux (etc) user seeing captchas all the damn time. If Cloudflare used this as a signal, that'd be a captcha for 20% of websites.
  Try using Tor today and see how inconvenient the web becomes. Just 'not blocked' doesn't mean you get a reasonable experience.
  The only healthy route for the web is fair access and free competition between clients. WEI sets that on fire.
  
  Sure, if the experience is degraded but not completely broken, I'm still down to ddos the perpetrators. And I get the feeling I'm not the only one. I could see this getting pretty organized.

99 comments