Allyship rule
ID: Drawing of a duck billed platypus underwater, they're wearing a rainbow coloured t shirt and a pink bum-bag, and saying: "Ally is not something you can self-identify as, it's a title that you earn. Let your actions speak for themselves!"
Credit: Sophie Labelle
I agree with speaking with your actions here, but at the same time, this seems like some weirdly unnecessary gatekeeping.
If you're not actually doing any allyship, in what sense are you an ally?
Theoretical allyship is irrelevant.
What is allyship to you?
Does one need to be overtly politically active or can one simply change minds in their social circles?
Must they sign petitions and call politicians or can they simply be a comforting or understanding shoulder to a marginalised person?
How much legwork is required to be an Ally? Is there a scorecard to keep in order to meet criteria?
Obviously, passive acceptance without any action isn't explicit allyship but must one be openly militant about LGBT issues in order to be considered an ally?
Does the real answer not lie somewhere in between? Maybe on a spectrum or sliding scale?
Values guide action. Humans can use cognitive rules to exhibit entirely new behaviors in entirely new situations, behaviors that are consistent with the cognitive rules. Theory may not be relevant if the situation doesn’t activate the relevant neural networks, but if someone doesn’t have ‘ally values’ how do you think they will behave in the future?
If someone feels like this post (or any other boundary set by the people they claim to want to support) is keeping them from being an ally, they never were one in the first place.
Are you saying that everyone who disagrees with you personally isn't an ally of the entire group?
Counterpoint: you can absolutely self identify as an Ally. For example, I self identity as an Ally and there ain’t shit this adorable platypus can do to stop me.
I’m an Ally because I choose to be, by my words and my actions and the example I set for my children every day. I don’t need an attaboy from any marginalized group to confirm I’m on the right side of history. We do what’s right because it’s right. Full stop.
While I agree with the sentiment, it's like labelling yourself "a good neighbor" or a "best friend". You don't get to decide if you're "a good neighbor" or not - your neighbors do. You don't get to decide if you are someone's best friend - they do. In the exact same way, you don't get to decide if you're an ally or not - the group that you're allied with does.
You can strive to be a good person and identify with being one if that label has been given to you, but certain labels, including "ally", aren't ones you can just give yourself.
I can also respect OP and the artists point of view (if they’re not the same individual, not sure if OP is sharing an original piece or someone else’s work) but I just disagree that people don’t get to “be called Allies” unless someone else gives them that title. Being an ally to me is not an honorific, it’s a series of choices.
Who do you self identify as an ally of? France? Bosnia? Laos? Do you have a treaty?
Counterpoint: you can absolutely identify as a socialist. For example, the German Nazi party identified as Socialist and there aint shit you can do to stop them /s
also
by my words and actions and the example I set
he confused, but he got the spirit XD
Oooh there's one for my bingo card. Comment to Nazis in one.
Centring yourself, talking over, and refusing to listen to the marginalised people whose side you claim to be on - the self identified ally personified!
Genuinely impressive how ignorant and presumptive this reply is. I’m assuming you’re young and I’m giving you the benefit of the doubt that your intentions are good here. It seems like you’ve had some bad experiences with bad faith allies in the past and if so, that sucks, and I’m sorry for that. But this is misplaced rage and your energy would probably be better spent elsewhere. I am not your enemy and I never will be.
You keep being an ass to people and you won’t have to worry about anyone wanting to be your ally.
Wtf? Lol
Before I realized and came out as bi, I was in the GSA (gay-straight alliance) in high school as a "straight." My state was voting to ban gay marriage at the time, and we campaigned against it. I got just as much if not more hate from people than the LGBT members. Maybe because they viewed them as a lost cause? It was usually adults yelling at a 17-year-old kid for being a "betrayer" and a "pervert lover" (I liked that one), just because I supported two consenting adults marrying regardless of gender. Staunch allies definitely earn the title.
I got mine from the Emperor of Gay People in the mail just this Friday. I framed it and put it next to my n-word pass on the mantle.
Is that like a one time n-word pass or are you fully certified?
Certified, but I have to kiss Jesse Jackson's ass every 3 years and maintain NAACP membership for recertification
Slightly unrelated rant.
I'm tried of these culture wars. It's complete nonsense. I'm not particularly LGBT+ but it shouldn't matter. This is about freedom for fucks sake! People just want to live and exercise their human rights! Anybody telling others they mustn't exist their way is an enemy of humanity! The fact that people get denied jobs and even have their rights restricted, just because some asshole finds out the ID doesn't match is fucking repulsive!
Recently had a chat with my aunt and she just "you can't expect people to immediately accept changes", shut the fuck up! It's not a change! It's a core value that's been in our constitution for longer than any of us have been alive. But clearly, despite being raise on these values, I'm the only one who believes them. Like some fucking santa claus shit!
Divide and conquer is a strategy as old as time. Can’t fault you for trying.
Help us out though, what can we do to be better allies? I try to be a good one, but I don't know if I'm coming up short.
To the kind of person that draws and publishes a gay platypus comic? As much performative kowtowing as possible knowing that nothing can ever be enough. Consistently voting against conservative bullshit and treating gay people like you'd treat anyone else your entire life certainly isn't enough. It's like how the Westboro Baptists don't think you're a real Christian unless you're currently lighting a family planning center on fire. The people who are REALLY FUCKING INTO IT are mostly just making the moderates on their side look like puckered assholes.
Is it not about being as fair as you can? This is my approach at least .__.
When you see someone being queerphobic, call them out. Tell them they're wrong. And if they waste time arguing with you, that's time they're too busy to attack a queer person to their face.
That‘s honestly a terribly broad question.
What are the people you are allies to telling you they want or are missing? Are you helping them in achieving what they want?
What are you doing for them besides that and do you think it is the right thing to do?
And yeah I don’t know, coming up short is a pretty loaded phrase. Some struggles we might still lose and still we have to fight regardless and relentlessly. And if you „fall short“ just try to do more, as well as the fact that we cannot all provide the same kind of support so its gonna be very personally biased either way
Step 1: learn how to do your own work instead of expecting (or even demanding) marginalised people expend our time, energy, and emotional labour doing it for you.
This smug copypasta can be applied to any minority or marginalized group, but it’s still not helpful.
Intersectionalism is important because everyone has a different experience - to expect me to internalize their struggles by reading a book or watching a video essay is absurd. You need to tell your story, we need to give space and listen. Crossing your arms and saying “do your own research” is unproductive - a well meaning ‘normie’ who is not terminally online doesn’t know where to start, autodidacts almost always have terribly shallow knowledge pools.
You, the person living through your experience, are the subject matter expert - why reject that authority that people have granted you and shown that they are ready and willing to listen to you?
This attitude is actually absurd
I guess I'll stop trying to improve.
I've had people misgender me and try to convince me not to transition and then go claim to be trans allies because they don't call people slurs and will say that killing trans people is bad if asked
That sucks. It's bigotry and then gaslighting, and then on top of it all we're somehow to blame for them being that way because we're not eternally grateful and fawn all over them for reluctantly giving us the barest of bare minimum decency and respect, and therefor leave them no choice (in their eyes of course).
it can be as simple as flying a rainbow flag
My wife and I are queer and have a pride flag on our house. One day a couple of kids came to our door while we were out of town. I was very worried because they were young and alone in the evening and we weren't home. We answered them with the doorbell camera. They said they were queer and just wanted us to know that they're happy to see pride flags in the area to know they're not alone.
ITT people are thinking this post is about them, but it feels like it's more targeted at the "The A is for ally!" types. (Thinking A in LGBTQIA is for ally instead of asexual.)
Why not both? 🤷♀️
I feel like the two groups are close to a circle in a Venn diagram - privileged people there to make it about themselves (in the form of self aggrandization and claiming non-existent victimhood and marginalisation) rather than about the marginalised people they claim to support (and only do superficially and entirely conditionally).
Taking actions to be an Ally has risks for folks in some places. Where I am LBGTQA+ support is the norm and doesn't really need to be spoken and when it is I've never heard anyone in over 10 years say a negative thing.
I have online though seen folks who try to speak up in Allyship of someone else get taken down. Subjected to purity tests by folks in an LGBTQA+ supporting community. It felt like the same bi erasure I've experienced and the same transphobia I've seen from parts of the LG community in the 2000s. It's like saying someone isn't gay if they haven't come out. All it does is lessen the crew.
LGBTQA+ shouldnt be treated as a club with a rainbow dress code. It should be the future default standpoint of all of humanity.
Hmm, I wonder what I managed to accomplish in the womb
Wow, this thread had me bringing out the ban hammer a lot!
Yeah and judging by the modlog, pretty arbitrary. I was expecting transphobia or similar, but the banned people were just annoyed by OPs "smugness" and then ban reasons are "you're not the victim" or "playing victim when told he has to earn allyship"??? These are not real reasons no? Im not suggesting a power trip but are you OPs aunt in need of defending them or what.
There is no space on this instance or its communities for "allies" who think the tone of queer folks comics is the real issue that needs to be talked about
Thank you so much for diving in to the cesspit, I knew there would be some push back, there always is, but I didn't think it'd get this bad (and I have a lot of these people blocked already, so I can only imagine, because I'm not going to look, not today satan!). Sorry you have to spend your time dealing with the mess! 😩
I don't like the "Ally" term. I don't get it. Feminist thinks the equality of man and woman, but the existence of the ally term make a distinction into feminist and allys, that it's just a genre thing. So you are saying there are no equality between male and famele at all.
Literally what are you even talking about
/u/Nexy is confused about the difference between a political view and an identity.
They are correct that there isn't really a difference between being an ally of a political movement like Feminism and being a member of that movement (although I think that movements/organizations with different priorities can be allies with a movement like Feminism, e.g.) a person is either a Feminist or not a Feminist there's nobody that's an ally of Feminism.
But there is a difference between advocating for rights for people with minority Sexual Orientation and Gender Identities (SOGIs), and being a person that is 2SLGBTQI. If we had a word that encapsulated the movement like Feminism does then we wouldn't need to tack on "ally". SOGI-ism? Good luck.