My struggle from a UNIX background in the modern "cloud" world
My struggle from a UNIX background in the modern "cloud" world
My struggle coming from a UNIX background in the modern corporate jargon server software world.
You can’t run vmalert without flags
Running grep without parameters is also pretty fucking useless.
500 words in to the over 3,000 word dump, I gave up.
Claims to have a Unix background, doesn't RTFM.
Nobody really uses Kubernetes for day-to-day work, and it shows. Where UNIX concepts like files and pipes exist from OS internals up to interaction by actual people, cloud-native tooling feels like it’s meant for bureaucrats in well-paid jobs.
Translation: Author does not understand APIs.
Want an asynchronous, hierarchical, recursive, key-value database? With metadata like modified times and access control built-in? Sounds pretty fancy! Files and directories.
Ok. Now give me high availability, atomic writes to sets of keys, caching, access control...
I’m ashamed enough that I can’t really apply to these jobs
This reads as "I applied to the jobs and got rejected. There's nothing wrong with me, so the jobs must be broken".
48Running grep without parameters is also pretty fucking useless.
The difference is grep is a simple tool that can take in text, transform it, and output it to a console. It operates in a powerful and easy to understand way by default (take in text and print lines in the text containing the search parameters). This vmalert tool is just an interface to another, even more complicated piece of software.
Claims to have a Unix background, doesn't RTFM.
Since when do Unix tools output 3,000 word long usage info? Even GNU tools don't even come close...
Translation: Author does not understand APIs.
The point is that these abstractions do not mesh with the rest of the system. HTTP and REST are very strange ways to accomplish IPC or networked communication on Unix when someone would normally accomplish the same thing with signals, POSIX IPC, a simpler protocol over TCP with BSD sockets, or any other thing already in the base system. It does make sense to develop things this way, though, if you're a corpo web company trying to manage ad-hoc grids of Linux systems for your own profit rather than trying to further the development of the base system.
Ok. Now give me high availability
I would hope the filesystems you use are "high availability" lol
atomic writes to sets of keys
You're right, that would be nice. Someone should put together a Plan 9 fileserver that can do that or something.
caching, access control
Plan 9 is capable of handling distributed access controls and caching (even of remote fileservers!). There's probably some Linux filesystems that can do that too.
In the end, it's not so much about specific tools that can accomplish this but that there are alternatives to the dominant way of doing things and that the humble file metaphor can still represent these concepts in a simpler and more robust way.
This reads as "I applied to the jobs and got rejected. There's nothing wrong with me, so the jobs must be broken".
This is the maybe the worst way of interpreting what they said. They can come and correct me if I'm wrong but I read that as: they have a particular ideological objection to this "cloud" ecosystem and the way it does things. It's not a lack of skill as your comment implies but rather a rejection of this way of doing things.
12This vmalert tool is just an interface to another, even more complicated piece of software.
Not really just an interface. It is a pluggable service that connects to one or more TSDBs, performs periodic queries, and notifies another service when certain thresholds are exceeded. So with all those configuration options, why is the standalone binary expected to have defaults that may sound same on one system but insane in a different one? If the author wants out of the box configuration they could have gotten the helm chart or the operator and then that would be taken care of. But they seem to be deathly allergic to yaml, so I guess that won't happen.
Since when do Unix tools output 3,000 word long usage info? Even GNU tools don't even come close...
You just said that this software was much more complex than Unix tools. Also if only there were alternate documentation formats....
HTTP and REST are very strange ways to accomplish IPC or networked communication on Unix when someone would normally accomplish the same thing with signals, POSIX IPC, a simpler protocol over TCP with BSD sockets, or any other thing already in the base system.
Until you need authentication, out of the box libraries, observability instrumentation, interoperability... which can be done much more easily with a mature communication protocol like HTTP. And for those chasing the bleeding edge there's gRPC.
I would hope the filesystems you use are "high availability" lol
They're not, and I'm disappointed that you think they are. Any individual filesystem is a single point of failure. High availability lets me take down an entire system with zero service disruption because there's redundancy, load balancing, disaster recovery...
the humble file metaphor can still represent these concepts
They can, and they still do... Inside the container.
It's not a lack of skill as your comment implies but rather a rejection of this way of doing things.
Which I understand, I honestly do. I rejected containers for a (relatively) long time myself, and the argument that the author is making echoes what I would have said about containers. Which is why I believe myself to be justified in making the argument that I did, because rejecting a way of doing things based on preconception is a lack of flexibility, and in cloud ecosystems that translates to a lack of skill.
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"I used to be with ‘it’, but then they changed what ‘it’ was. Now what I’m with isn’t ‘it’ anymore and what’s ‘it’ seems weird and scary. It’ll happen to you!"
Literally old man yells at cloud
18I swear Im a decent coder, but fuck me if kubernetes and that whole ecosystem just confuses me
10I am someone with kubernetes in my job title. If you as a developer are expected to know about kubernetes beyond containerizing your application then your company has set itself up for failure. As you aptly said kubernetes is an ecosystem, and the dev portion is a small niche of that.
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I've struggled with many of the same tools. What we need is real distributed operating systems, like Plan 9, not increasingly complicated hacks and kludges to keep old-world operating systems relevant in a networked world.
6“Clould-native” software co-exists with corporate jargon. They obscure and complicate in the interest of perpetuating lucrative contracts over productive environments.
“Cloud Engineers” get paid $150K+ to fiddle with these strings and make sure it’s all escaped/delimited correctly in YAML files. It’s a fucking mess. I’m ashamed enough that I can’t really apply to these jobs. Maybe writing and running software on servers in the commercial world is not a good fit for someone like me who despises corporate jargon.
This.
6hating on k8s is very in vogue currently. simpler systems like ECS exist and are really good too.
anybody bitching too hard about the tools today isn’t remembering 10 years ago correctly.
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