Centrism

NPR did a segment on how people from different sides of the spectrum tend to see each other in a negative light. I TRY NOT TO man, but someone yesterday told me to my face, "Those mother fuckers should burn", because his neighbor made a sound complaint about his chickens.

Our city is NEXT TO LA. I'm a farmer, and so is he. I don't understand his worldview at all. He's an immigrant, and he's anti-immigration. His business struggles to compete with larger businesses, but he fears socialism. He brags about freedom of speech and the pursuit of happiness, but he thinks he should be able to control women's bodies. Also, he said a bunch of people should die in a fire. My sister has cerebral paulsy, and if you don't know, a lot of people who died in the fire couldn't run for the same reason. I wanted to spit in his face. I'm a bald, white, male farmer, so people open up to me, thinking they're in good company. I look like a redneck, and technically, I have one. The shit people say is wild. It tends to darken my world view. I try not to focus on them, though, except in ways I can be kind and slowly sway them, hopefully.

Left pushes reading and education right pushes illiteracy and blind faith in the leader but m'authoritatianism

Ah, this old canard in which radical leftism didn't do anything wrong, no revolutions lead to dictatorships and centrally planned economies were sabotaged by the capitalist illuminati. God forbid we critique leftist ideologies, anyone who does that is worse than a nazi.

Where can I get that upside-down blue flag shirt? That's going to go hard while the police are beating me for having a sign on a sidewalk.

I've had people on this platform tell me they were excited for, "the fall of empire." Knowing full well there would be a human cost. So yes, oppression is bad, but if your answer is violence then it's time to parse which violence is acceptable to you because obviously you've already distinguished.

Horseshoe theory is truly one of my worst enemies, a thought terminating cliche that is zesty enough to feel like a revelation so every midwit loves to trot it out to feel superior. "Opposite things have similarities, therefore, opposite things tend toward the same"

Why can't you just get along with the nazis like we on the enlightened center do

I don't consider myself a centrist, but I do consider myself between the two parties currently.

I don't like the "both sides are wrong" mentality often associated with centrists. I don't think I am inherently better than either side. I think I am disillusioned by both sides.

I was a Leftist/Democrat for the majority of my life. Then at some point ~8-9 years ago saw the pipeline that leads to radicalized righty thinking and said "fuck that" but when I turned around and looked back on my old party critically I also didn't want to walk back through that door either.

Basically I think both "sides" need to shut up and stop slinging poop at each other. Occasionally you need to listen to the other side. Neither one is always right or always wrong. Some of the moderates from either side can admit this and they hang out in the middle ish with me. But most people just sprint farther to either side when their ideas are challenged.

But since everyone has this "us vs them" mentality over every little thing I don't see communication or collaboration getting any better going forward.

It's funny because Lemmygrad/Hexbear are indistinguishable from Gab.ai, and it's a bunch of liberals on the center who think "free healthcare" is somehow not centrist

Edit; honestly, all you need to do is look at the comments in this thread saying oppression isn't always bad. Lemmy.world never fails to amuse

Lol, some leftists need to get over the fact that not everyone will agree with their pov, and that doesn’t mean those who disagree are “center” or “liberal”, whatever the fuck they think those labels mean. I am tired of what feels like emotional blackmail by hardliners who insist that their biased opinions are definitive progressivism, or that they are the arbiters of truth or justice. But continue being wrong, it’s just you losing credibility 🤷‍♀️ Truth and justice require a principled and unbiased approach towards morality, ethics and philosophy. I believe people can do better than zero-sum realpolitiks, I guess that’s just my naïve take.

/tiredposting

Oppression is bad...

...Unless that oppression is done by the vanguard to protect the revolution. Then the oppression is ok.

Wow, author doesn't know what centrism OR horseshoe theory are, lol.

Hint: Neither of them are accurately described as "both sides are equally bad".

I'm reminded of a Christian fundamentalist depicting an atheist being gotcha'd by being asked where his morality comes from if there's no God, and literally having a "checkmate atheists" moment over it. Equally smugly dumb.

I'd argue it's not that horseshoe works in rhetoric but voting patterns. Both "extremes" of "the horseshoe" end up being moralistic and favor dismantling the system.

They may say oppression is bad from the far-left but at the same time when voting that oppression might just mean globally to them and not to the domestic matters.

The blame can be shared and probably where the horseshoe fails.

At no point have I ever seen anyone in a political science class mention horseshoe theory except in the process of explaining that it isn’t a scientific concept that has validity and was the creation of a journalist. There is no evidence that backs the horseshoe theory. A former Marxist is not going to have much in common with theocrats, monarchists, or fascists and is unlikely to move from one to the other.

TL;DR: horseshoe theory isn’t taught in poli sci because its bullshit.

oppression leads to depression

Horseshoe theory posits a wolf in sheeps clothing and a sheep in wolfs clothing are the same thing.

USAmericans have successfully identified the middleground as a target because the idea of getting along is so foreign to them.

Ah yess," we need to create classless society by eating all the rich, killing all the landlords and destroying capitalism around the world" is totally different from the far right which is also "do violence against people we don't like in order to get the society we want". Youre not a faschist if you think the people who you want to kill are responsible for all your issues I guess. Wait, wasn't that literally what hitler said?

Calling to violence is sure to get all the reforms you want. You could also, idunno, take a page from the rightwingers playbook and viralize memes about every single thing the administration does wrong so the public does not forget and is turned against them.

Far left is mostly also authoritarian. They say they want everyone to have the same rights but get angry or try to silence people that don't agree with their radical ways. I'm not talking about the left in general but the far left. As such they see it needed to achieve their goals, even if it official is equality for example.

Edit: Removed "Tankies definitely are authoritarian." They are kinda a weird case where they believe or say they believe in Marxist Leninist ideology but then support countries that dress as communist even if they are ruled by a small elite or are actually mostly capitalist. I believe they are kinda gullible far left with mostly a "US bad" sentiment so China and Russia must be good. They are not solely representative of far left authoritarianism

That's not why.

Extreme left - they're out to kill me so I have to defend myself.

Extreme right - they're out to kill me so I have to kill them first.

Centrists throwing around the horseshoe - both sides are so prone to violence, they might as well be the same thing for the rest of us.

Doesn't mean they're correct, they just don't like violence and shy away from it.

Last panel is on point for the majority of humanity because preparing for the future isn't a default command written in our genetic code, but a learned behaviour.

Cool. I guess only people to the right and left are valid. The right is bad, and the left is good. The rest? I guess we don't count...

Gee sounds a little like a far right standpoint... That's so weird, they never go authoritarian!

Centrists are people who prefer not to artificially simplify problems before coming up with a solution. Top right panel is a ridiculous strawman

Nice projection - those of us who voted for Harris even though she wasn't ideal aren't mature adults who tried to prevent the situation we're in now, we're just centrist nazis with our heads in the sand! Keep telling yourselves that when the SWAT team assaults your Moral Purity pedestal. The truth is that we actually tried and you didn't.

The idea that there exists such a thing as a "far left" is the most centrist thing ever.

Both sides are bad and very close to the same in result. They differ in method and the only thing they both agree on is they can't stand someone who wont endorse one side or the other. I'm not a centrist. I'm a victim of both parties. I want to see them all in jail. The root cause is the type of person who seeks out power. They should never be allowed power. Of course we now have the perfect suck of power hungry trash backed by all the other power hungry trash. They will continue to pit us against each other. Just like these types of cartoon where they insist the centrist are the problem and not the foaming at the mouth zealots on the right and the left. There are at least three sides. The corrupt democrats. The corrupt republicans. Their victims. If you endorse either side is being better or worse you are not a victim.

I asked AI the following question. I thought the response was worth sharing:

"What evidence is there for the merits of horseshoe theory?"

Let me analyze this carefully. The horseshoe theory suggests that the far-left and far-right of the political spectrum are more similar to each other than to the political center.

The main arguments made in favor of horseshoe theory include:

1. Both far-left and far-right movements have historically shown tendencies toward authoritarianism, with examples like Stalin's USSR and Hitler's Germany using similar tactics of state control, propaganda, and suppression of dissent.
2. Some similar rhetorical and organizational patterns appear in both far-left and far-right movements, such as: populist appeals, scapegoating of particular groups, calls for radical system change, and rejection of liberal democratic norms.
3. There are historical cases of individuals and groups moving between far-left and far-right positions, suggesting some underlying commonalities.

However, there are significant critiques of horseshoe theory:

1. It oversimplifies complex political ideologies and movements, forcing them into a rigid geometric metaphor that may not reflect reality.
2. Surface-level similarities in tactics or rhetoric don't necessarily indicate deeper ideological similarities. The fundamental goals and values often remain drastically different.
3. The theory can be used to dismiss radical critiques of existing systems by equating all forms of political extremism, regardless of their specific content.
4. Political scientists generally view it as an oversimplified model that doesn't adequately capture the multidimensional nature of political ideology.

Rather than a strict horseshoe pattern, many political scientists prefer more nuanced models that consider multiple axes of political belief and recognize that authoritarian tendencies can emerge across the political spectrum without necessarily indicating ideological similarity.

What are your thoughts on how political ideologies should be mapped or compared?

With all the demonizing of men in the last 40yrs, you really have your head so far up your ass you can't see the people the "liberals" are actually oppressing, and it's created this toxic and insane male counter culture that is just as insane as your eicxan ideology. You idiots caused this current state.