1mo ago

Why Won’t the US Corporate Media Call a Nazi Salute a Nazi Salute?

www.commondreams.org Why Won’t the US Corporate Media Call a Nazi Salute a Nazi Salute? | Common Dreams

The mainstream press failed to accurately describe the hand gesture that Elon Musk made twice at Trump’s Inauguration Day rally, setting a troubling precedent for the second Trump era.

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Apologies to whoever originally posted this I downloaded it earlier today
- Luigi Mangione made an odd-looking gesture towards a CEO.

It is a fun activity to think of legal standards here. Of course we don't know what he was thinking for sure, and we never will, just like everyone else in the world every day of our lives. But we can and do judge people by their actions... In other words, where do people want to put this Nazi salute? What is their certainty about his action? Below are the legal standards.
Reasonable suspicion
Probable cause
Preponderance of evidence (more likely than not)
Clear and convincing
Proof beyond a reasonable doubt
Where would you rank the Nazi salute conclusion? I think proof beyond reasonable doubt, and perhaps we could reasonably debate claims that it's a level or two weaker than that. But the deniers, they want to say there's not even reasonable suspicion, and that is a sad joke.
- If it was something that came out of the blue, I might be more inclined to give the benefit of the doubt, but the man follows, regularly retweets and converses with actual (as in, they call themselves that) Nazis on Twitter.
  It just shows that the mainstream media (and the ADL) aren't really interested in the truth.
- It was a Nazi salute without a doubt. The only question is if it was accidental or intentional. Musk being a far-right operative and making a bunch of Nazi puns as his response instead of an apology for the misunderstanding makes it clear it was not an accident.
- I’m pretty sure what you mentioned are principles used in courts of law. As a rule, journalists can and should call a spade a spade. They don’t need to prove beyond reasonable doubt what he was thinking.
  
  Yes, the whole point was to bring up legal examples, to show the absurdity of trying to read Musk's mind here when we don't even do that for murder trials.

Yeah, I think I wholeheartedly agree with the Die Zeit journalist. If a right-wing person does a Hitler salute in front of a right wing audience... It's probably a Hitler salute... Context matters and it's not like Musk usually shares left-wing perspective on his platform. We know for a fact whom and what he sympathizes with...

- I don’t disagree with your point but at least half of America isn’t reading any of those sources and instead live on major tv network and they’re the ones talking about the ‘gesture’

The thing that my stomach drop is the crowd cheered. Not a shocked intake of breath or booing. They cheered. He did a sieg heil and they cheered it. If you cheer a Nazi doing Nazi things, you're also a Nazi. The US has a Nazi infestation. Even if they get another remotely fair election to correct this, it won't be accepted, again, and insurrection2 will have been prepared for, for 5 years. I feel that sieg heil of the richest person on earth marked the end of American democracy.
- Republicans will never accept another election if a Democrat wins. This is our future, where every election they lose is contested. That is, if we have another election. I think we're heading to a pseudo democracy like Russia, where they can vote but Putin always wins in a landslide.
  
  To be honest, I don't see them allowing a vote to go against them. It is if this shit can hold together without Trump. He's old and doesn't do diet or exercise. He's the linchpin of it.

I spent the larger part of the day trying to convince my sister. I don’t think it worked and now I’m just depressed about it.
- The best argument I've heard so far is "If it's not a Nazi salute, do it at work tomorrow."
  
  I tried that, got promoted to Chief of Police. I didn't even work in Law Enforcement
  
  And if its "just a hand gesture, try giving a cop the finger"
  
  No kidding huh.
  
  I said either way the nazis know what they saw. She still double downed gaslighting me some more and changed the subject to how Bernie’s policies are more like the nazis. I never even brought up Bernie. I replied with a sad emoji after that. It’s exhausting.
  
  And so it begins
- Have you shown her the side-by-side GIF of him doing the same move as the H-man? There's another one where it shows him doing it exactly like a group of neo-nazis on a street demonstration. Mirror image.
  
  I don’t think it will help because she said if you watch the whole Video from he perspective it looks like just an awkward gesture
- As someone whose mother is a goddamned orange supporter, just implement a no-politics rule to save your relationship.
  
  At this point I don’t know if I want a relationship. I joke all the time about getting adopted by a progressive family maybe with a conservative uncle or two.
  
  A working relationship may be based on mutual understanding, support, values, love.
  If it's not working, it can hardly be saved by being based on only sharing some genetics.
  Love it, change it or leave it can very well be applied to relationships.
  Why would a sane person want to save a relationship to racist, mysogynist, hateful, spiteful, vengeful assholes by simply not letting them show what assholes they are (but yet knowing they are) in the first place?

Because the Nazis own them
- Most major corporations are owned or operated by sociopathic oligarchs who would prefer to implement a fascist dictatorship, and be a part of the state capitalist monopoly, than have to pay higher taxes or deal with regulations.
  This is what happens when society rewards psychopathy/narcissism with wealth and power.
  
  "BuT cApItAlIsM pRoMoTeS mErItOcRaCy!!"
  
  So stop buying their shit
  
  Straight to the heart of the matter.

Because US corporate media is owned by fellow fascists.
Next?

Because he's rich. And a celebrity. Americans love them their rich celebrities.
- And more importantly, rich celebrities will sue you for defamation even if you’re right. That can cost a lot of money to defend against.
  
  Wonder what happens when you take everything from a person and feel victimized. Hmmm maybe become a plumber?

The corporate press is now just a pro-kleptocracy propaganda outlet. Representing the views of an oligarchy isn't exactly "mainstream" so we should stop calling it that.

I've seen people here on Lemmy, people I don't think are just trolling, that are finding convoluted reasons to excuse it as not a Nazi salute. And I am so fucking tired of it. Listen to virtually everything he has ever said on the subject of race and gender and sexual orientation and other such things. Maybe if he didn't have a really long history of being a racist, maybe if he didn't support the Germany's modern Nazi party, maybe if he isn't trying to get an unapologetic Nazi out of prison in the UK, I would consider that he accidentally did a Nazi salute (twice). But that's not the reality.
"Oh sure, he's a bigot that loves Nazis, but that wasn't a Nazi salute" is some real fucking bullshit.
- Internet forums have always been full of contrarians who want to be the only ones to know the "real truth". That explains a lot of it. Others just get lost in the logic of it. I'f I can't prove that he held true Nazism in his heart when he did it, does it count as a Nazi salute?' This is sort of futile question they ask. The fact that there's broad consensus on what this was makes them more likely to try to logic their way into a special minority position.

Because they’re cowards and have been for quite some time.

Fear of retaliation
I'm pretty sure that was the point
- +1 to infinity
  We are where we are because of fear. On both sides
- Exactly.
- Exactly. You accuse the richest person on the planet of being a Nazi,the facts won't matter when you've got 3 billion in legal fees.
  He can spend 100 billion dollars in legal fees just to spite them without affecting his life one iota.

because a huge part of fascism is the merging of corporations with the government.
the corporate media is covering for nazis for the same reason the leader enshittificator Alphabet, the otherwise twitter's direct competitor Evil Corp, and of course the slavery warehouse Amazon were all represented with their figureheads Sunil Bakshi, the T-600, and Lex Luthor alongside that Troglodyte Phony Stark. they're merging.
- That is the precise thing your average true believer right wing "libertarian" doesn't understand about fascism.
  It doesn't matter whether the state or the corporations absorb the other, the merging of these power structures (and religion as well) is the goal. The result is still a tyranny that can only be escaped with war.

Lemmy should maintain a list of competent and incompetent news sources. In lots of places.
- Well the first part is easy. If their corporately owned. Especially publicly they are by Nature incompetent. The other half though is the interesting half of the question

They're all hoping to become maga state run media.
Also, they have no problem with Nazis.
This isn't complicated. Hardly worth the time it took to post. 🙄

They worked very hard to get the Nazis elected. That's why.

because they're complicit

Because they are also Nazis, they're just not ready to go mask-off yet.

"Corporate Media"
Where's the confusion?

For the same reason you never see Bruce Wayne with Batman

Because they are saluting right back at him.

Because the same people who are asked to describe who did it are the same people who are paying the people to describe it.

Because everyone wants to hope it won't happen to Us. They think/hope that by not acknowledging, it won't exist. A la COVID. Nothing like sticking your head into the sand... 😮‍💨

I think that you are being distracted.
Hey Elon, do something outrageous so these idiots are looking at you while I'm over here doing this other scary stuff.
- And I think you're being fooled if you genuinely believe the orange man is the one pulling the strings, and not literally the richest man on the planet.

Because there's just enough "plausible deniability" that they could face costly legal challenges by oligarchs who have endless money to throw at bogus claims

Same reason they reported everything Harris did as some wild mistake or deeply questionable, and reported every insane thing Trump said like it was just a well meaning elder statesmen making open ended questions to contemplate.

Large Media is part of the same game, they're basically placing stock options bets on the economy and national / unrest to profit as long as they can until the shooting and looting starts

The media is inherently fascist. Wall street military and prison industry profiteers control the narrative of the legacy media outlets they all own and they own our politicians and political process as well. They just keep lying to all of us and since all the maga morons are dumb enough to believe whatever they are told they just hope the rest of us will bend over and accept they are right. they’ve waged aggressive psychological warfare against the us population for decades. Its created a subsection of the population dumb enough to unquestioningly believe whatever musk and trump say so much so that it if they came home to find both musk and trump raw dog tag teaming their wives they would without question accept it as 100% truth when they are told the cum dripping from their wive’s oral vaginal and anal openings is just a little rain from the open window. While pointing to a closed window nowhere near the marital bed they just defiled in the middle of a sunny day during a July drought and heat wave
- I was with you until the weird bit at the end objectifying women.
  
  Its an uncomfortable analogy but its 100% accurate. Maga sycophants would sit by while elon and don consensually defile or rape their wives and believe whatever excuse / rationalization they provide. And then call anyone who is there saying “yo dude they are literally gang banging your wife” or offering to help stop them, as an “unhinged woke far left marxist”

The media needs the government to cooperate if they want to get any info from them. As it is, they didn't HAVE to tell us much, but choose to. If might not even occur to some of them not to. It makes the medias' job easier that way. Otherwise they'd have to REALLY hound the administration, or start putting out way more negative stories. So they play nice and the government plays nice. If the government decides if hates you, they'll blacklist you and your boss will have to send somebody else. IIRC the Cheeto in Chief did that last time. And since the media is privately owned and Regan's evil bitch ass killed the fair reporting laws back in the 80s, here we are.

America loves nazis. America wants to be nazis.
Get out before it’s too late.
- As an American who fucking hates Nazi's, piss off with your defeatism. I would much rather die fighting against Nazi's than run like a coward because things look bad.
  
  Oh tough guy.
  Have fun with that.
- Fuck that. It's my country, I'm not leaving. We've defeated Nazis before we can do it again.
  
  We especially defeated those nazis like Wernher Von Braun!
- A lot of country are going the same path. This isn't anywhere near being exclusive to America.
- There's no getting out, what happens in America affects the rest of the world too.
  Nazis have the federal government in a chokehold but there's a lot of resistance at local and municipal levels. I'm just mid level management but after Trump's announcement on "two genders" I immediately let my trans and nonbinary employees know that they would continue to be seen and respected and validated at work regardless of what the white house says.
  The worst I fear is still the issue of global warming, it's already bad and the white house is locking in on releasing all the CO2 it can - and the entire globe will suffer for it.
  
  Unfortunately the globe is already done for.
  I have zero faith that humans will stop global warming.

Because of the imperial boomerang. The ruling far-right in Ukraine (which the US installed in the Maiden Coup) has multiple self-declared Nazis in positions of power, erects monuments of & names streets after famous Nazis, has a military covered in Nazi symbols, and required the US Congress to lift a ban on arming Nazis in order to receive military aid. But the media coverage is all denial and gaslighting of ‘it’s complicated.’
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/05/world/europe/nazi-symbols-ukraine.html
And now we’re over a year into a live-streamed genocide, as they tell us to ignore our own eyes & ears.
We are ruled by Nazis, on both sides of the aisle.
- Dude does a full sieg heil twice and your reaction is something something Ukrainian Nazis?
  You're weird. Stop being weird.
  
  Walk me through the logic that makes you terrified of a Nazi salute, but excuse billions in weaponry to Nazis.
- I've read some stupid ass backwards shit before but what the actual fuck are you going on about?
  
  What is confusing you?
- The whiplash from the whataboutism must hurt
  
  “Whataboutism” would be defending one party for being Nazis because the other ones also are.
  Not defending either. Both Nazi parties need to be dismantled and held accountable.
- If we take this as argument all ukrainians are fascists, then those guys should proof all ukrainians are LGBT.
  But maybe there are just all kinds of ukrainians fighting together against Russia?
  
  The bad actors always try to deflect from the people openly identifying themselves as Nazis, to ‘are you saying all Ukrainians are Nazis?!’
  People aren’t as stupid as you believe.

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