5mo ago

No no no

Mastodon.

195 comments

idk, I feel like we could take a much better approach to this. Instead of just mocking them, maybe point out how they maybe can't trust where they got their idea of who trump was, and maybe to stop supporting him?
- "If you believed x, maybe it's time to look at who told you x and whether they're a trustworthy source of information"
  
  This happened in the UK too with Brexit. When things turned out badly, in the exact way as was predicted, it was "this isn't what I voted for". But the problem was never with the vote itself, it was always the fault of politicians not implementing things correctly, it was the EU's fault for not giving them what they wanted although they voted to be outside of it, experts didn't warn them enough although they ridiculed said experts because the experts didn't went along with the Brexit beliefs.
  It's like trying to be Scully and going against Mulder's "I want to believe".
- maybe point out how they maybe can’t trust where they got their idea of who trump was
  people have been doing this for years. YEARS
  i will mock and ridicule them until the day i die. fuck trump, and fuck trump supporters.
- I guarantee you that the people saying "this isn't what I voted for" voted for him in 2016, 2020, and in 2024.
  They got exactly what they voted for. These people are just surprised that the leopard is eating their face, and not those of darker skin.
- Lots of people responding here are missing your point. If somebody you know voted for Trump is now struggling to understand what's going on, and they voice this thought to you, take it as an opportunity. You shouldn't tell them what to do (ie "Don't watch Fox News"), but rather, follow the Socratic Method to guide them to question their sources. Start small - their entire worldview won't shatter in one conversation. But if you see cracks forming in their beliefs, that's something worth fostering.
  No, not everybody is going to see the light. It's important to know your "audience." If you don't believe they're asking in good faith, or if you're not comfortable engaging with them, then please don't do it. At the same time, although it would feel really good to throw a We told you so! at them, it's better saved for rants among like-minds. Responding with such hostility to somebody who already feels used and betrayed isn't going to help them find their way back to reality.
  Remember that we are going to need to be as united as possible on this war against the oligarchs. Whether someone has seen this threat coming for years, or only just now realized what's going on, it's not going to matter in the big picture. It's better to educate than isolate.
  
  Thank you. I didn't have time to go into such detail but this is spot. Really feels like we're throwing away a rare opportunity to persuade trump supporters
  
  Lots of people responding here are missing your point
  No, they're making a counter-point, that's not the same thing. Their point is:
  If somebody you know voted for Trump is now struggling to understand what's going on, and they voice this thought to you, take it as an opportunity
  To laugh in their faces and mock them, as they deserve. Because these people have already gotten the nice attempts, and can now eat shit
  
  Right, democrats are the enlightened bunch and republicans are fumbling in the dark. The mythology continues.
- Instead of just mocking them, maybe point out how they maybe can't trust where they got their idea of who trump was, and maybe to stop supporting him?
  20 years of pointing out that shit like Fox News was just feels over reals sure did a lot of good on that front.
- This works when no faith is involved. Trumpists are a cult. People who believe in something at an irrational level (like what happens with religious fundamentalists) can't be reasoned with. They are way beyond the point where reason works with them. Now only a very hard wake up in the form of a traumatic event will work for them.
  Have you ever tried to convince a very religious person that their god doesn't exist? Same thing.
- Fuck that.
  We got in this situation from our side being too polite and dismissive. The only language that they understand is sophomoric and emotional, so it is time to communicate with them in the only way they know how. We tried rationally explaining what was going to happen. It's happening, now it's time to rub their nose in it and point out that their inability to engage their brain landed all of us in this situation. Then hope to God some neurons dust themselves off and start firing.

No he isn't. They're all fucking thrilled. Where are y'all getting this shit? Trump voters are tap dancing right now.
- There are some stories of trump voters that had their immigrant wifes deported and they are totally shocked, because “shes one of the good ones”
  
  Sad thing is, they'd probably try to vote him in a third time anyway.
- I saw a news story from conservative women who have government jobs that are now realizing DEI means women too, not just black . Not saying they’re rational but they’re out there
  
  There’s also teachers who voted for Trump that are surprised he’s going to dismantle the department of education and freeze the federal funding they depend on.
  
  Well thats quite a lesson to learn.
- One of the ones in my office openly said there are three words he thinks need to come back “the r-word, the f-word, and you know the other one”. They are emboldened and giddy
  
  The fact that they don’t feel (yet) bold enough to say the actual words when discussing this is telling. I’d love to see them pull that shit in front of the wrong person and get popped in the face.
- Like 60% of the male Latino vote went to trump, and I've seen Trump support shirts among those rounded up by ICE, so some of them are in the Find Out phase.
  There's also the idiot Arabic groups that helped get Trump in power by demonizing Harris then are all shocked Pikachu when Trump turned out to be exponentially worse.
  
  There’s also the idiot Arabic groups that helped get Trump in power by demonizing Harris then are all shocked Pikachu when Trump turned out to be exponentially worse.
  "Demonising Harris" here is a shitty euphemism for "Democrats refused to stop supporting genocide then told any and all voters, but especially Arab voters who might have particularly cared, to fuck off", with the shocked pikachu in practice being Democrats who are surprised when telling voters to fuck off over concerns about genocide did not help them turn out the vote to beat Trump.
  Then being racist about those same minorities by blaming the election loss on "Arabic groups" after monstering them as saboteurs and belittling their concerns repeatedly.
  Almost like anyone with 2 brain cells could have told you that's both bad policy and bad campaign strategy.
  In an Oct. 16 memo, the leading super PAC supporting Ms. Harris raised alarms about being outspent on television. The group, Future Forward, said in the memo, which was first reported by The Washington Post, that it would be “difficult for anyone” but the Harris team to close the gap because of the higher ad rates that super PACs pay.
  It was hardly Future Forward’s only frustration. Another memo, issued days later, pointed out “very high-performing ads that have yet to get a big spend.” One ad, Future Forward said, had ranked in the “100th percentile” — meaning it was the most effective — yet it had virtually never been aired.
  Campaign officials, meanwhile, were frustrated that Future Forward sat on so much of its money until the final weeks, forcing the campaign to spend more on the airwaves earlier.
  Another Harris challenge: After raising $1 billion in less than three months, a bevy of consultants, allies and others were often angling for a cut, including the chairman of the Democratic Party in Philadelphia. In September, the Harris operation contributed almost $25 million to other party committees, in part to quiet those demands.
  Some media allies of Ms. Harris were also paid. Areva Martin, who hosts a talk show, was paid $200,000 as a media consultant, and she went on a battleground-state tour in October.
  https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/17/us/politics/harris-campaign-finances.html
  Typical left-wing economic agenda items like “living wage,” “affordable housing,” “paid family leave,” or “union jobs” dropped out of Harris’s vocabulary in the weeks after Labor Day. Tracking the use of more neutral terms relating to the economy — like “wages,” “jobs,” and “workers” — we see a trend line that slopes upward into early September before declining over the following weeks. By October, Harris was spending less of her time campaigning with Shawn Fain and Bernie Sanders than she was with Republican Liz Cheney and billionaire Mark Cuban, unlikely candidates to push any kind of progressive economic message, let alone a populist one. Cuban was gleeful enough to declare that the “progressive principles . . . of the Democratic Party . . . are gone. It’s Kamala Harris’s party now.”
  This pivot wasn’t merely rhetorical: donors, consultants, and business-connected campaign staff pushed Harris to “clarify” or de-emphasize previous statements indicating support for a slate of popular policies on price controls; capital gains, corporate, and wealth taxes; and a host of other issues. Harris’s vague suggestions that she would engage in price controls to bring down inflation were watered down into a policy that already exists in most states that prevents businesses from profiteering on natural disasters. Her gestures toward taxing the wealthy became a capital gains tax proposal of 28 percent, far lower than the Biden administration’s proposed 40 percent; and she never took a position on Biden’s proposal to tax unrealized capital gains. And as time went on, the candidate spoke less and less frequently about her watered-down price-gouging proposal or her commitment to taxing the rich.
  https://jacobin.com/2024/11/harris-campaign-economic-populism-democracy/
  While in Michigan, Clinton criticized Palestinian and Arab-Americans who oppose the Biden-Harris Administration’s support for Israel’s war on Gaza, which has killed at least that 43,000 Palestinians, most of them women and children, and rendered much of Gaza uninhabitable.
  In a speech yesterday, Clinton argued that Israel was justified in not keeping “score” of civilian casualty counts in Gaza due to Hamas’ October 7th attack. He also claimed civilians have been killed because they were used as human shields despite the fact the Israeli government has engaged in what even President Biden admitted was “indiscriminate” bombing, destroying mosques, churches, schools, hospitals, and refugee camps.
  He also justified Biden administration’s support for the Israeli government’s genocide in Gaza by arguing that Israelis had lived near Gaza since “before [Islam] existed,” citing King David and referring to the Holy Land as “Judea and Samaria,” a term used by far-right Israelis who oppose a Palestinian state. Clinton stated that President Biden was fulfilling his “duty” to Israel by providing unconditional military support.
  https://www.cair.com/press_releases/cair-condemns-bill-clintons-insulting-and-islamophobic-justification-of-gaza-genocide/
  "Arabic groups" didn't decide the Democratic parties campaign message. "Arabic groups" didn't decide where Democrats spent their campaign money. "Arabic groups" didn't ask for Bill Clinton to lecture them about Judea and Samaria and how it belongs to Israel, nor did "Arabic groups" emphasise running an entire slate of Republicans at the DNC, whilst refusing just one Palestinian American speaker that would have effectively endorsed Harris on behalf of the uncommitted movement on stage. "Arabic groups" didn't tell Democrats to downplay their economic messaging for fear of upsetting lobbyists and rich donors feelings.
- Libs still coping hard from their losing genocidal candidate.
  
  Low effort ragebait.
  
  Weird, why aren't you complaining about Trump's genocidal policies now? Why are you still focusing on "the libs"
  Oh, is it because you never cared about genocide, and your only goal here is to regurgitate anti-liberal propaganda?
  
  Genocidal...Phhhhffff.
  We've upgraded to Super Mega Genocidal now!

all the people who refused to vote for kamala must be so pleased with how little palestinian genocide is about to happen. aren't they? well? aren't they?
no?
gee it sure sounds like their whole little plan backfired in the worst possible way come to think of it, ACTUALLY.
- It's almost like it could have been easily predicted
  
  If only people had been talking about exactly what happened for months leading up to the election, maybe it would have gone differently.......
  
  Yep. As soon as I heard her stance on Israel, I got a sinking feeling. There was such hope and enthusiasm at first, but she just had to pander to AIPAC.
  
  To be honest, my prediction was "parking lot", so the whole "riviera" concept was a surprising development.
  The ethnic cleansing was obvious, tho.
  
  Not by explaining it, because that was tried on and againd to no avail.
- Dawg, the democratic party failed to energize it's base by running a center right campaign with a platform of strong boarders, a strong military, and tax cuts. Them failing to get enough votes is there fault for trying to beat voters with the cudgel of trump while offering nothing to most working families. I voted for Kamala, and even I recognize this. I am really tired of seeing a comment like this every time there's a post about trump. The election is over. Rhetoric like this only divides the left further.
  
  Imagine thinking democracy is only your duty if you feel energized by the candidate.
  
  Rhetoric like this only divides the left further.
  Liberals aren't left, and the democratic party served its purpose to a T. These people who continue to defend it are too. Both of their purpose is to shift the overton window all the way in to fascism, which they are doing successfully, and have no reason to stop (until the fascist come for them, at which point they will wonder why no one is interested in or even around to help them).
- I see an awful lot of people post-justifying doing nothing as some form of radical resistance.
  Well, sure, maybe it is resistance, and maybe they have a clear conscience... But it didn't do a fucking thing, did it?
  
  I see it this way. They want to stop the atrocities in Gaza by any means possible. I can't blame them for that, but I can blame them for how they went about doing it.
  Let's boil it down to playing a simple game. You can play by the rules, and play smart, and win. Or, if you don't like the game, you can play a different game and win that one.
  By voting for someone other than Kamala (or not voting) they are inherently playing the game, and playing to lose.
  If you want to play a different game, then you need to do some Luigi shit instead of sitting on your thumbs bitching about things.
  So in the end, they played the game, and they played to lose, and now we're all fucked because of it, and I don't respect that decision at all.
  
  Yeah, abstaining from voting accomplishes nothing. They should've voted for an anti-genocide candidate like Jill Stein or Cornel West.
- If I were running for office, it would be easy to say no to genocide. Why wouldn't Harris do that?
  
  Republicans would just spin the narrative by accusing her of being antisemetic (aka a Nazi).
- They'll take no such responsibility. People are stupid and it's time to stop pretending. It's time to stop coddling stupid people, it only emboldens them.
- Stop blaming the voters for kamala's bad decisions.
  she threw her campaign when her campaign chose to abandon the very vocal block of anti-genocide voters who had enough votes to swing the election.
  if your campaign can only succeed if several millions of people to change their minds suddenly, you ran a losing campaign from the beginning.
  
  It’s the voters who voted for Trump. It’s that simple.
  Although I didn’t have ”Trump ending the Israel Palestine conflict by making Palestine American” on my bingo card, it was always super obvious that Trump is way more pro Israel than Kamala. If you thought otherwise you didn’t pay attention at all.
  
  Actually, for that matter, I DO actually want to incorporate your point.
  The problem is the proverbial horse died of thirst.
  You're right in that it's not correct for me to simply leave it at "you can lead the horse to water but you can't make it drink", because the truth is SHE DIDN'T LEAD THE FUCKING HORSE TO WATER AT ALL IN THE FIRST PLACE!
  She silently held up a sign that said "maybe water"
  Trump held up a sign that said "no water for anyone except you" (which was patently a LIE, there was never any water at all with him) while also making beckoning noises and holding a sugar cube in his other hand.
  The fact that the horse literally couldn't even read in the first place doesn't change the fact that she didn't do her fucking job and that he used empty populist rhetoric to lure the horse to a place where there definitely was NEVER going to be any water whatsoever.
  We tried to nudge the horse to where there might have been water. But it's just a dumb fucking animal and wanted sugar cubes. Now it's dead (and it didn't even get the sugar cube it was being bribed with) and
  ...
  yeah. We have better shit to do than keep beating this dead horse. It's too late for it to learn anything.
  So, departing from that metaphor, in a very real sense I've been making preparations to help people survive and perhaps someday even evacuate. Complaining about the circumstances is not the ONLY thing I'm doing, not by a long shot. But I do complain. Because I'm stressed and need to release the metaphorical pressure.
  If you know of any mutual aid groups starting up to construct an underground railroad now that the horse is dead and we have to rely on ourselves, I'd sure like to know.
- You know what makes me so angry though? Looking at the way the Dems govern, even now in the face of this firehosed of shit, this was going to happen eventually. I've been thinking a lot about "who's worse, the Nazis, or people who opened the door for them?"
  
  It does seem that this would have happened eventually unless the rot was repaired, which didn't seem likely. However being accellerationist about it seems so foolish. Why wish for bad outcomes to happen sooner? There is no guaranteed good that will come later on to make it somehow a better choice than living with the lesser evil now.
- It didn't backfire at all. If we can demonstrate that the Democrats can't win if they support genocide, then maybe they won't support genocide next time. And if they cannot be persuaded to listen to reason, then they need to be replaced by another party and the sooner we start on that the better.
  Y'all think this was unexpected because you never bothered to understand our positions or arguments. You just strawman us and then believe your own strawman. Trump being worse on Gaza was already acknowledged and considered, there is no surprise here and no regret, we made the correct choice and will do it again if we have to.
  
  What next time?
- genocide is about to happen.
  lmao libs waking up after over a year... acting like they suddenly give a shit about an ongoing genocide.
  This is why y'all keep losing. Literally offering nothing but vile condescension.
  
  Laughing at people caring about genocide is a strange position to take. And not an especially moral one.

This is what they voted for and it's what everyone who didn't vote, voted for.
Just because you're single issue doesn't mean the politicians are.
- Like, people had been screaming at these single issue voter to not do it, yet they did it, everyone is fucked, and they pretend they didn't do it.
  I wouldn't be this annoyed if it's some small country but this is US, their policy affect the world. What worst is melon husk trying the same trick on other country as well.
  
  this is US, their policy affect the world.
  Yeah that's a problem with empire. It shouldn't be doing genocide on the other side of the planet. It's what people are opposing. casualimperialsm
- 🎵If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice🎶
- everyone who didn’t vote
  Imagine believing that everyone's vote matters.
  
  You again? Again, nuance…

Maybe, MAYBE in his first term they could pull this “oh no we were fooled” crap but not on his second term.
- We have a saying in Texas: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on...wait...how does it go again?
  
  Ya can't...get...fooled again?...
- My MiL was one of those people who were initially fooled, but that lasted a week before she realized she fucked up.

If they suffer any consequences from their vote, they'll likely just blame Democrats, or immigrants, or trans people, or [insert scapegoat of the week here].
- as I have gotten older, the more and more I realize that the story of 1984 isn't really a warning for the general masses but more of a warning to those people that are easily manipulated. The two main characters are so compliant in their suffering.
- And if they get desperate enough due to the consequences of their actions, they will become violent towards their scapegoat. Let’s not forget that.

I see posts like this every now and then, but I'm not convinced this is happening on any real scale. In fact, most pro-Trumpers I've encountered have been making excuses for every shady thing he's done since taking office as "getting America back on track"
- People that say trump supporters are regretting his election really don't get trump supporters. A HUGE portion of them voted for trump b/c it hurts their opponents. They don't care how it hurts them just as long as it hurts their opponents.
- If there were a hundred thousand articles pushed out for a hundred thousand individuals that still leaves 73 million or whatever willing enablers.

There’s a big thread on /r/conservative right now circle jerking about how not concerned they all are and how it’s exactly what they voted for. Sure buddy, come back and say that when something shitty Trump does affects YOU which it certainly will.
- Sounds like copium to me.
  
  Yeah it's definitely something people do when they really believe everything is okay
  
  It's reprogramming. Carefully orchestrated to normalize fascist behaviors.
- Imagine believing that Trump will come for the privileged white bros.
  
  Fascism consumes itself
  
  who do you think is going to be drafted into his expansionist bullshit?

This is all exactly what I expected from a second Trump presidency and is exactly what I voted against.
They pre-announced all of this shit with Project 2025.
- I haven't heard any of them say this isn't what I voted for. Sadly it's exactly what most of them want. They don't give a shit if democracy is lost.

Reminds me of the joy when watching interviews with people on the British/Irish border, when they learned they now have to buy their groceries 30 mins further than they were used to. They also said: "we didn't vote for this". What do people expect to happen when they vote for something?
- It's weird to see billions of dollars and thousands of media-hours invested into a massive industrial scale propaganda engine. And then, after all of that time and money and manpower, we get a "I can't believe you fell for it".
  This is regardless of who wins. I remember conservatives smugly insisting their debt-sunk kids and grandkids were idiots for supporting Biden. I remember smug liberals pointing to the shoddy fly-by-night wall building operation on the border and insisting "You fucking idiot border conservatives got what you paid for." I remember conservatives, in turn, laughing at all the liberals who thought Obama would bring about universal health care and climate change reforms and high speed rail.
  Every fucking cycle we get this smug "Haha, you idiots fell for it."
  
  Remember when Biden was "only one term" and "the most progressive president in history?" His entire career was on the record for us to see what a servile and slimeball of an insider he was. At least with Trump you know you're getting a bad deal, he wears his sleaze on his sleeve.
- Just a small point, there isn't a British/Irish border. The border on the island of Ireland is between the Republic of Ireland and The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

Where are people seeing these stories? I’m not trying to deny their existence at all, I’m just curious where they are?
I’m a huge fan of irony.
- The poster points to this as an example: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/06/trump-arab-americans-dearborn-michigan-00203018
  People are apparently surprised that Bibi’s best friend is anti Palestine. Who could’ve known?
  
  but if you vote lazy biden it's gEnOcIdE!!1!
  That was a tiring time.
  
  I want to point out that we had a couple of brains who run around, called everyone stupid and thought Trump was on the side of Palestine.
  I also want to point out that the Dunning Kruger Effect is alive and well here on Lemmy too.
  
  And by "people"... You mean a tiny tiny minority of people victimized by genocide who realistically couldn't change anything. Yes those are clearly the people to blame. \s
  But go on with your self-righteous delusions.

And they'd vote for him again no matter.
Enjoy a moment of schadenfreude... Sure, but understand that it changes nothing.
- Seriously. It's been 10 years of Trump BS antics in the news. If anyone is surprised I have have an oil to sell them that will cure that.

"Oh, then this isn't what I thought I voted for."
It's exactly what you thought you voted for. (They wouldn't admit that they're wrong though)
- Leopards ate my face
  
  If y'all think leopards are eating the faces of the privileged white people who voted for trump, then you're even more delusional than usual.

I do not believe in a self reflective Trump supporter. And that says nothing of him fulfilling his promises, many of them tuning out for the ones that they don't like

They said that last time too, 75 million people still decided "You know what, at least it's not a liberal black woman". Or something about Gaza. At least it wasn't buttery males this time.

What do you call people who got conned by a conman. You call them suckers. That is what they are and that is what I'll even call my boss straight to his face
- Agreed, but this this the 3rd round of him doing the same bullshit. At this point they aren't suckers, they're cultists.

Yeah, schadenfreude is small comfort, but I suppose I'll take what I can get to keep spirits up as they fire up the gas chambers.

when you voted to deport grandma

Sure, some vanishingly small percentage but the vast majority of people who voted for him are still in the cult.

It works both ways

Tbf, you were going to hear those stories either way, it's in Russian/Chinese disinformation campaigns best interest to stoke as much division as possible

Liberals love the "Trump supporters are starting to come around and regret their ways" story. Every day for the next 1300+ days they will be posting this. In truth, the people who voted for Trump with enthusiasm (not just contrarianism, fatigue or ignorance) will find any way to spin his policies as a positive or a necessary evil. And frankly, anyone who voted enthusiastically for the Democratic party is capable of the same and demonstrated they too have no moral red lines.
- Liberals blah blah! Both sides same! The more Trump burns everything to the ground, the more ridiculous your statements will look. When Trump pulls us out of NATO and Putin starts reaching into the baltics, I imagine you will still be here trying to convince idiots that Biden and the Democrats are the same.

And you assume this story is true too... It's not.

Are the 'stories' in the room with us? He doesn't post a link to any of these 'stories' because that's what they are. Stories. What Trump is doing is amazing - Slashing all the waste out of the government - other countries need to follow suit!
- On the one hand, he makes a point, I don't see nearly enough stories. But in the other hand, no, Trump may seem to be cleaning out the government, but he's actually installing an oligarchy. The news only covers symptoms that are common between the two intents. I'm all for a good cleanse, but that's not what is happening.
- Yikes! The fascists have arrived. Let me quickly ban your ass. Byee.
  
  lol. You're hilarious. Do what you gotta do.
- That link underneath would lead you to it.
- He posts a link: https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/06/trump-arab-americans-dearborn-michigan-00203018
- I think it’s funny how many Americans forget how Trump’s last term ended.
  Better stock up on toilet paper.

195 comments