Regarding the “Rust” shooting.

My take is that Alec Baldwin the Actor isn't to blame. Alec Baldwin the Producer caused all of the Armourer problems by running a low budget production.

As an actor he wasn't supposed to check the gun, however as a producer he failed by not hiring the correct licensed armourer due to cutting corners.

I do agree, but the reason Baldwin is even being looked at is because he was also the producer, if I'm not mistaken. So it could be related to some negligence on that end. But yeah, as far as what he was doing as an actor, it doesn't seem like he should have any responsibility.

Haha. Rando internet schmuck thought they won the argument. But no one expects the 82nd Airborne Division

Are people arguing the armorer, who left live ammunition in a gun, ISN'T responsible for the accident?? I don't understand who or what he's arguing against

An architect designs a bridge. The materials include a number of steel beams that dont actually meet the support requirements for the bridge's expected traffic. The bridge collapses.

This guy, to the survivors of the collapse: Have you ever even taken a bridge safety course?

Why the fuck do they use real weapons on a set and not prop weapons? That's the part I don't understand at all...

I think the take away on this is:

As is, currently, actors are not responsible for checking their prop weapons on set. No actor is ever expected to do it, because there are people responsible for it. In the event of an incident, in the current standard practices, no one can reasonably blame the actor.

But, systematically, it shouldn't be that way.

We can't look at one incident and say "clearly the actor was in the wrong" because culturally, it's X Y and Z tech's job to check the firearm. But cultures within an industry can shift. Currently, firearm safety on set isn't everyone's job. But it should be everyone's job. The system should be better, because firearm safety is a demonstrably life-or-death process.

How do you change the system? By holding productions liable when stuff like this happens. You sue the absolute shit out of the producers, so the producers have a crippling fear of NOT improving the system.

You don't hold the actor Alec Baldwin responsible. You hold the producer Alec Baldwin responsible.

... Are people still on about this? Is this just because right wing lunatics hate Alec Baldwin because he occasionally says Democrat things and did a good impression?

Nobody gives anywhere near this much of a shit any time a stunt person dies on a movie or even when Brandon Lee died under very similar circumstances ("fun" fact: The Crow tragedy is arguably why we have John Wick).

Fault is pretty well documented at this point. Beyond that it is just the usual weregild paid so that production companies don't have to care about their lapses in safety.

According to the Associated Press, since 1990:

43 people died on sets in the U.S. and more than 150 had been left with life-altering injuries.

But only two of those deaths in that time were from firearms.

I've done some digging, and I can only find 3 people who've died from firearms accidents in Hollywood's history: Jon-Erik Hexum, Brandon Lee, and Halyna Hutchins. Does anybody know of another production worker killed by firearms?

Can any industry or profession that regularly deals with firearms compare with this kind of safety record? People in law enforcement, the military, and regular gun owners who lecture Hollywood on firearms safety probably need to STFU.

I get what he’s saying, but in something as high stakes as this safety needs to be the responsibility of everyone involved.

There should be as many redundant safety checks as possible.

Wow the 82nd, this is like getting D, there are 81 airborns before yours.

Alec Baldwin was a producer on the movie and thus was involved in the decision making process to have nonunion crew on set. IATSE armorers have a near-perfect track record with firearms on set. As somebody with the clout to make it happen, Baldwin should have insisted on the shoot being a union set.

The issue is, as I understand it, that Baldwin was handed the revolver from a producer or someone of similar standing and he should have handed it to the armorer for checking, regardless of what he was told.

Bro really looks like a call of duty character

Whatever happened was horrible but also, and my brain can't stop thinking about this, will the movie ever come out? I don't think it did

I'm not super up to date with the situation—Why is it that it happened in 2021 (from what I can find) and there's a bunch of people talking about it right now?

There’s a few reasons why he was charged, both as an actor and producer. Gun safety just can’t be fucked around with.

In the document, prosecutors accused Baldwin of “many instances of extremely reckless acts” during the film’s production.

They wrote that Baldwin “was not present” for mandatory firearms training before filming began. He was instead provided on-set guidance but prosecutors allege he was “distracted and talking on his cell phone to his family.” The training session was scheduled for an hour but was only 30 minutes long due to Baldwin’s “distraction” on the phone.

… The prosecutor’s statement described several “acts or omissions of recklessness” on the set of Rust. This included foregoing the use of a prop gun during unscheduled rehearsals, willful ignorance toward on-set safety complaints and a lack of armourer-performed safety checks.

https://globalnews.ca/news/9451182/alec-baldwin-rust-manslaughter-charge-phone/amp/

I knew an MOS2111 sgt... they had a ND that resulted in the loss of a foot.

Military credentials dont mean shit, son.

He didn't answer the question...

The armorer was a nepobaby who’s father was a far more experienced armorer. I don’t doubt it was almost entirely her fault.

Not to be a downer or anything, but I feel like the person who challenged the story wasn't really in the wrong here?

It's not that the story isn't true or the person who reported it isn't who they said it was. It's that, they didn't mention their credentials right off. Now that we're living in an era when misinformation is rife, especially now that some people appear poised to flood us with a sea of LLM-generated shit, citations and backing up your information up front are becoming more important.

People make confident and bold assertions all the time. Some of them will know what they're talking about, but some of them won't, and many times they'll look the same until someone challenges them.

Well, that's how I see it anyway.

Amongst all the huhbub and finger pointing, the actual first rule of guns is always check that the gun is loaded.

You check the chamber and you check the ammo.

At no point should there ever be live ammo on a movie shoot. Whether that Baldwin's fault for hiring a shitty armorer, I don't know. But there where many failures up and down the line. If the assistant director was also supposed to check, they also failed.

But at the end of the line, Alec Baldwin picked up the gun and didn't or couldn't identify that the gun was loaded with live ammunition and pulled the trigger while it was pointed at someone. And that person died.

This is one of those few times where quite literally over 50 million Americans could have done a better job than the armorer.

The concerning part is the 10k+ up votes

Test

An actor that has to do stunts gets stunt lessons. An actor that has to drive gets driving lessons. An actor that has to box gets boxing lessons. Am actor that has to speak a different language gets language lessons. And on and on and on... And then we have: AN ACTOR THAT HAS TO HANDLE GUNS DOES NOT NEED TO HAVE GUN HANDLING AND SAFETY LESSONS!?!

Permanently Deleted

So I get that the armored is chiefly responsible but I have to wonder... why was he pointing the gun in that direction at all? When I heard that someone was shot, my first thought was, why wasn't it another actor? You know, like the person he was shooting at in the movie? The media never seems to answer the questions I have.

If you handle a firearm, it is your responsibility to know whether that firearm is loaded, simple as that. Hollywood shouldn't get a pass just because Hollywood has been irresponsibly handling firearms for its entire existence. The responsibility lies both on the armorer and Baldwin, they both failed in this moment.

Pretty sure the law doesn't give a shit what conventions Hollywood has developed and followed over the years. You have a gun in your hand, you pull the trigger, you are responsible for the outcome. Don't like it? Learn gun safety, ignore what the person handing you the gun claims, check that it's unloaded yourself. Hollywood conventions need to change to align with reality.

Edit: I've been out of the loop. I wasn't aware they dropped charges against Baldwin. That's really fucked up in my opinion, as per the above.

Having been in the military does not mean that you're an expert on firearms safety. The military does all kinds of dangerous things with gun, and people can and do get killed with negligent discharges in the military because they don't practice adequate safety.

So that's really not the flex he thinks it is.

This is the same mentality that goes into army veterans believing that they're a good shot because they qualified as '"expert" with their rifle. Well, bad news; I surpassed "expert" and went straight to "sniper" the first time I tried the old Marine Corps field of fire with my rifle (timed shots, standing, kneeling, prone), and that was functionally untrained. "Marksman" is the qualification that you want if you're going to claim to be a good shot.

Disingenuous post. Actor not being responsible ≠ blindly trust the guy in charge to not make any mistake ever and not even checking your own weapon. This is common fucking sense and you would think they learned that after Brandon Lee.

Then he's a moron, and I'm gonna ask my buddy who was in the 82nd Airborne if he happens to know this fool. My dude was actually at my house yesterday and I showed him a new gun, I picked it up, unload and show clear, pass it to him, he shows it's clear as well, and now it is safe, that is paramount any time you touch a real gun, I don't care what your fucking job title is, I don't care what your experience level is, if you can't do that you DO NOT get to touch real guns, use airsoft until you can learn a modicum of responsibility. It isn't even that hard to do, it is literally "Press button, see bullets? No? Good. Yes? Bad." It is absolutely basic shit that a fucking 10yo could do (not that they maybe should lol, but they are physically and likely mentally capable of checking for rounds).

And accidents can happen at any level, this "squat leader's" cavalier attitude towards gun safety is actually pretty fucking dangerous, and I hope he's not some kind of instructor these days. He's liable to have an accident himself with this attitude ("Oh I was a squad leader I know what I'm doing." BANG, friend at the bbq has a new hole "Whoops sorry Jerry.") Hell, I know a dude who served as a grunt who recently got fired for having an ND at work (thank god nobody got hurt by that "experienced soldier" but all of us who never served and got on him for safety practices ended up being able to finally say I fuckin' toad-a-so.)

Tl;dr I don't fucking care what either of their job titles are, IF YOU TOUCH A REAL GUN, LEARN GUN SAFETY FIRST End of story, that is it, no other details matter, not your job, age, experience level, nothing.

Sqaud leader in the 82nd is such a limp dick flex. Look out for this E4 promotable to E6! Motherfuer could have been a squad leader in finance. Doesn't mean shit. And I am more willing to bet that he wasn't wasn't in combat arms by this shitty take. Anyone that has spent time around guns knows full well that you always check the load of a weapon first thing.

OP should really just delete all this. It's bad and you should feel bad.

Notice he didn't answer the question with a yes or no....