2y ago

Monster

55 comments

Why not? It always seemed to me like a lot of duplicated work to package everything on every distro.
- Yes, but each package manager has it's (dis-)advantages. It's great to have flatpak and docker to be able to run software on almost all distros, but the OS still needs a way to update.
  Almost all immutable distros use multiple package manager.
  Fedora Silverblue: rpm-ostree + flatpak (+ toolbox)
  OpenSUSE MicroOS: zypper with snapshots (transactional-update) + flatpak (+ distrobox)
  NixOS is unique since it only uses the Nix package manager
  immutable Ubuntu will probably only use snap for OS + apps.
  All those OS support distrobox and docker additionally.
  
  NixOS is unique because it uses the only potent package manager (if we don't count that one reimplementation of Nix). Calling the others "package managers" becomes mostly a courtesy when NixOS enters the picture.
  lalala with FS-level snapshots + flatpak + distrobox + a kitchen sink
  look_what_they_need_to_mimic_the_fraction_of_our_power.png
  
  You can use at least appimage with NixOS...
  
  all the more reason to sunlight these old packaging formats and move to universal solutions like flatpak and nix
- Linked dependencies, for one. What if your distro uses uClibc? A different imagemagick version? What about LTS distros? Immutable distros?
  
  What if who cares?
  When I used to build app packages internally I also built packages for our own python and ruby versions for our in-house software. The motto was: “system packages are for system software”. We weren’t writing system software, we were writing business software and shipping it, so why be dependent on what Redhat or Debian provided?
  Universal packages are just an extension of this philosophy, and is why things like docker and app stores are such a success. Burdening the user with getting system dependencies right is worse than the DLL hell of the old windows days.
  
  Usually people mean flatpak and other desktop-focused formats when talking about universal package formats.
  Even docker images are usually built with traditionial package managers, except if they're built directly by Nix.
  I agree that there won't be "the" package format, since they all have their tradeoffs. E.g. Nix updates need quite a bit of memory, so it isn't a good choice for resource constrained embedded use-cases.

Flatpak seems quite nice now days

Fine. You can do what you want but for me personally I will just use flatpak.

Oh no, apps directly from the developers, the horrors
- Flatpak with OSTree or ABroot, the future is now. Although it would be nice if Silverblue would automatically create a container and install non-flatpak apps into it, then add desktop.ini files automatically:

What about cosmopolitan? https://github.com/jart/cosmopolitan
- Hey that's pretty good, thanks!
- Is it used for any serious apps? I saw they released the "cosmos" which is very impressive but mostly seemed like basic utils that were already available in Linux/Mac?

This is essential for the year of the Linux desktop to come.
- 50 years and counting.
  Any day now...
  
  32 years, Linux ain't THAT old

laughs in emerge
- laughs in immediate firefox updates
  
  laughs in clang updates

I see how it can be convenient for some distros to get the latest version or install something that is not in the official repo.
But I use ArchLinux and we always have latest versions and big repo + AUR, so I never used universal packages.

I nominate nix

Frankenstein is a surname. The mad scientist's name was Dr. Victor Frankenstein. Since the monster wasn't endowed with a first name, the only name it would have is Frankenstein: the same last name as its father.
- You should at least read the source before you spout off. The monster's first name is Adam. And as an aside he speaks and reads three languages. You probably think he was slow and clumsy too.
  
  His name isn't Adam. He just makes a comparison between himself and Adam from the Bible. The quote is:
  Remember that I am thy creature; I ought to be thy Adam, but I am rather the fallen angel, whom thou drivest from joy for no misdeed.
  
  Good point. It seems I wrecked myself before I checked myself.
- The assumption being that he is a child of some sorts for doctor Frankenstein. I haven't read the book.
- Victor dropped out of college, he has no doctorate.
- He clearly men't the xkcd version of Frankenstein

55 comments