Right turn on red? With pedestrian deaths rising, US cities are considering bans

Lights have to get smarter. Right on red is half the traffic flow in my area.* I always see so many situations where a green turn arrow would be appropriate, and yet the intersection is relying on the right-on-red rule instead, causing each car to pause when it should be flowing through. And even more situations where a light always stops the majority direction of traffic on what must be a fixed timer that poorly syncs with some upstream lights, because it always seems to turn red as a clump of cars arrives, even when there's almost always no cross traffic. Maybe right on red is more dangerous in some places, and we can get rid of it, but we have to replace it with some actual civil engineering instead of making traffic even worse.

*±100% margin of error, sample size 1

Let me preface that I think using vehicles as a primary source of transportation inherently scales poorly, and you can easily argue this by looking at how much a road costs versus a rail and how much mass you need to move per person on car versus train.

That being said, I really hate this article because it relies on anecdotes from various people and opinions without making any effort at citing relevant statistics. It literally cites the TOTAL number of pedestrian deaths to vehicles in 2022. I tried to find some statistics on right turn on red light, but all I could find were 20 year old or older studies, most of which actually concluded that right turn on red doesn't really account for a large number of pedestrian injuries and deaths. Like this one, for instance, which claims that right turning on green can also result in pedestrian accidents which could result in much more severe injuries (I can see how this might be true but there's no evidence to back this up.)

It's interesting for me to look at this from a utilitarian perspective: Surely there is a tradeoff between the amount of time wasted due to traffic increase due to right turn on red, and the time equivalent to the amount of lives lost due to RTOR (assuming RTOR results in more deaths). This of course is an incomplete/flawed way to look at things as we don't give highway collision motorists the death penalty for causing huge traffic blocks; iirc though it is how a lot of safety studies are done (look into how the statistical value of a human life is determined from highway transport administrations).

I would really appreciate if someone could chime in with some actual stats and numbers (though I doubt they're readily available) about the topic, rather than some anecdotal comments. I'm not a fan of symbolic legislation that doesn't provide real benefit (think plastic straws bullshit), and I would like to see a convincing take on whether or not this is that.

I'm My State when the lights turn green to take a Right the pedestrian light also gives the pedestrians the green light to cross. So we have cars turning right while pedestrians are crossing. How much safer is that. At least now when you take it right on red the pedestrians don't have the right to cross.

Changing traffic laws will have some effect, but really we should be working on more lightrail and more high-speed trainsets. It will take time for housing and business to rebuild around stations, but it will simultaneously keep people safer, alleviate traffic, and reduce emissions. Nothing more satisfying than flying by traffic for less than the price a gallon of gas, especially if you live a decent distance from work or school too.

USA has ass-backwards system for getting drivers license. At least from I could find online. You get learners permit after passing written exam. That's not nearly enough. In my country you have to attend 20 hours (optional depending on existing licenses) of theory, then pass theoretical exam. Then you have a driving instructor assigned to you for total 40h (or 20h depending on existing licenses) in 1h sessions. You first start training court where you train to start, stop, turn and other driving maneuvers. When instructor deems you ready for traffic only then you get to drive with them in the car and having dual controls for the vehicle. Only when instructor deems you ready you are allowed to take the test for getting the license. And even on the test you first have to pass training court before you are allowed to enter traffic.

By the time you got learners permit you have at least 40h of driving in traffic which is significantly better than just passing written exam.

In my eyes, law is not the problem but experience and people paying attention. Phones, doing makeup, eating food and other things should be forbidden in car because it distracts you too much.

Right on red also causes terrible traffic problems at busy intersections as people who don't have the right of way turn right while people who do have right of way get stuck waiting to turn left or are forced to block the intersection.

I wish my city would get rid of it, at least in downtown areas where traffic is a problem and a lot of pedestrians are walking around.

Why not enforce the "pedestrians have the right of way" thing?

Sounds like Revenue Generation to me. Some out of town driver doesn't know about the local traffic law, gets cited for breaking it, and loses if they fight it.

In Utah people are allowed to turn right on red lights. But what most people don't seem to understand is, that means AFTER you've come to a stop at the intersection, and made sure it's SAFE to turn right. I've seen so many accidents here because people think if they're turning right, they don't have stop at the light - even though there's traffic coming through the green light side of the intersection. The problem isn't the law, it's that people don't pay attention and think about what they're doing. In every accident I've seen, humans not paying attention is the real cause.

Drivers are becoming hostile and idiotic by the day. What you'll also notice is when it is green, they will stop instead.

Need higher or more severe penalties if this is to save lives

We don't have right on red in europe. Can't imagine crossing the road to a median with it

It's banned in NYC but not enforced, so it may as well be legal. Then again, barreling through a red light also isn't enforced.

They should ban slip lanes too

I was in the US a bit over a month ago. Started to cross when the walk signal became green. A driver went into the crosswalk we were stepping into, only looking left and never coming to a stop until she saw the guy crossing from the other side. She never saw us once and nearly ran us over. We don't have the equivalent here (left on red) in Japan and we do fine. Get rid of it.

Uhh not by default! The pedestrian crosswalks need to be hooked to the light, and timed better. When a pedestrian needs to cross (with the button), then no right on red—after the cars go. That way there isn’t a rush by anyone.

Drivers should not have the option to decide for themselves when they think it’s safe

I hate this sentiment. They don't want people to think for themselves.

This seems weird. Do you guys not have arrows for turning traffic? Just one set of solid lights??

I think traffic laws is one of the few things where Canada is even worse than the US. It's outright retarded how traffic lights work here and it's a small miracle that we don't have casualties every single day on every single street

CHICAGO (AP) — Sophee Langerman was on her way to a bicycle safety rally in Chicago’s Lakeview neighborhood in June when a car turning right rolled through a red light and slammed into her bike, which she was walking off the curb and into the crosswalk.

It's not the right on red that's a problem. It's the dumbass that steps off the curb against a no walk sign. They should stop making laws to protect the lowest common denominator and let Darwin handle the rest.

I live in Charlotte and they can ban all the want and it won't change anything. CMPD doesnt enforce any traffic laws in this city.

About time.

She wasn't killed because motor vehicles can't make 90deg turns with a city corner radius at 50mph. (Drivers would if physics allowed)

This is OK and we really need to update speed limits and enforcement with what we've learned about safety since the 60s

With the advent of smart traffic lights I don't really mind losing right on red. But right on red is not the source of the issue The article shows there are studies that it's not the issue. Removing right on red is not going to improve the numbers.

The traffic light systems are complicated enough to handle camera data. How about we eat extra indicator lights when people are in the crosswalk? How about we put up some barriers and bad areas to keep people from jaywalking?

I have a better idea... ban pedestrians!