4d ago

Interviews as seen by HR and the candidate

Programmer Humor @lemmy.ml

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102 comments

Let's stop mincing words here.
You want me because I have a particular set of skills that you think will be helpful to you in your pursuit of profit.
I want your job because I can leverage the skills I have for money and benefits that will provide food, and shelter.
Your main concerns are profits.
My main concerns are survival.
Employment is where these things meet in the middle. Let's not pretend that we're here because we're friends. We are not family. Fuck you, pay me.
- Short version. My boss pays me enough so I don't quit, and I work hard enough so he doesn't fire me.
- Unfortunately, many companies don't care about PR anymore. In the past, some would try to appear "we are family" to retain employees. Now it is everyone for themselves.
  
  some would try to appear “we are family” to retain employees
  Nope. Rule of acquisition 111. They claim that everyone is part of a happy family because family is easiest to exploit.

What about us resonated with you?
Your offer to pay me.

Comfort hunter is a very snobbish and entitled way to refer to someone offering their time and effort to you.
And wait, was the 2nd post 'liked' by the first poster?
- Let us not forget that there is not a single employer on the planet who would willingly hire and pay someone more for their time than that person's time is worth. Each employee of a company is making that company money. They deserve comfort because they are the company.
  
  I have a client who helps their personal out way more than they should. Even paying them extra so they can pay their tax debt. Not that some of his employees deserve it, heck the one he paid the tax debt for is even leaving the company after this all happened.
  Corporate bosses suck, small company bosses can be pretty decent depending on the type of company and how much money is being made. These are the companies that generally don't have a HR deparment or a C level employee.
- That means that the HR account thinks what the employee account wrote is bad, too. Both posts are bad extremes.
  As an employee, if i find a prospective colleague who doesn’t ask about what they’re supposed to be doing at all, I’d be wary of them, too.
  
  To many people nowadays, the actual job itself doesn't matter, it's the fact that it's a job and it pays.
  
  The thing is that that kind of information is usually in the offer. I'd be polite and and for confirmation and clarification but not everyone has that kind of tact and not hiring someone because they didn't ask you to repeat what it's written on the offer is kinda harsh tbh.
- Very possible the first post was sarcastic

HOW DARE YOU ASK FOR COMFORT IN YOUR ONLY ONE LIFE???!!
- Yeah its shocking we are not incredibly grateful isnt it.
  "Nobody wants to work"... :)

Jesus Christ, yes, I am a comfort hunter. You think I get up at the ass crack of dawn every day for fun? You think I want to push buttons on a computer all day because I'm just weirdly into it?
No! I do this shit because I have to!
Fucking hell. I've already accepted that I have to make your company money if I want to live in a house. For the love of all that is good in this world, PLEASE do not make me pretend to like it. I'm already weirded out that you're so into it.
- Making you pretend to like it is HR's kink.
- You clearly are not a "team player". HR already has a plan for your life, all you have to do is follow their instructions and things are smooth.
  Feeling unhappy? Deal with that outside of work, and make sure it dont affect your work.
  If its one topic i really feel passionate about, its the entire anti-work thing. Because we are human beings. All of us work because we have to. And thats it.

I've never understood why the HR people always see "not asking questions about the company" or "not demonstrating knowledge about the company" as such a red flag.
People are looking for a job, not a cult to join.
- They want cultists though. Easier to exploit
  
  Once I did an online interview process were they had a whole video and slideshow explaining about the company history and culture and the employees were saying about how it was a position for people who "truly believed in the mission of the company".
  And then they had a quiz about it.
  They truly want a cult. Fuck em.
- Researching the company used to be a thing you did when selecting a career/lifetime position.
  .... Since that doesn't happen anymore, I couldn't give any less of a shit about what your company is all about. I can do thing, you want to pay me to do thing. It's as simple as that. All the rest of this crap, I just don't have the time, effort or shits to give.
- You would understand if you understood the mindset of HR employees. To them, you are joining a life mission, not just a job. And they have a plan for your life so it fits the company objectives. Super great. Except no.
- Not to mention, they could already be familiar with the company.
  
  Yeah... I'm not gonna be asking the stuff I already found answers to via an internet search.

You can buy loyalty. Give someone a high paying 3-year contract and they'll probably work to the end of it. But of course HR doesn't want to hear that.
- Shocked Pikachu
  People will work FOR MONEY!??!
  every HR team ever.
  
  Ours tried to explain to project leaders that employees are not mostly interested in their salary, but in praise. That went over well.

The part about asking what about the company resonates with you is a good interview question provided you hire for the long term. If you hire for a specific project what loyalty are you expecting?
- BuT We'Re A FaMiLy HeRe!
- My loyalty is for sale.

It's either a business relation on both sides or it's a personal relation on both sides.
I was in Tech in Europe through the transition from when employees were people and the company was loyal to them and expected loyalty to the company in return (the age of lifetime employment), to the world we live in now were employees are "human resources", and for a great part of that period there was this thing were most employers expected employees to stay with the company whilst the company needed them and be dedicated to the company, whilst in return they treated employees as a business relationship with (in Tech) some manipulative "fake friendship" stuff thrown in (the ultimate examples: company paid pizza dinner when people stay working on a project till late, or the yearly company party, rather than, you know, paying people better or sizing the team to fit the work that needs to be done rather than relying on unpaid overwork) - still today we see this kind of shit very obviously and very purposefully done in places like Google.
Of course the "humour" part here is that plenty of managerial and HR people in companies still expect that employees are loyal to the company even all the while they treat them as disposable cogs who it's fine to exploit without consideration for their feelings or welfare - or going back to the first paragraph of this post: they relate to employees as a business relationship whilst expecting the employees related to the company as a personal relationship (often a "second family").
- If I'm working late on something, I expect to be paid for that time and the company can provide a meal.
  You're not paying me? I'll see you later then.
  
  The amount of underpaid/unpaid overtime I've heard of is terrible. At this point I will always ask if someone gets paid 1.5x if they're hourly working overtime, or if they're classed as salary exempt from OT pay. The former is blatantly illegal yet still happens often enough, while the latter can be legal but is usually taken advantage of with no compensated days.

real nObOdY wAnTs To WoRk vibes...
also, if a candidate is having to ask what you're bringing to the table as an employer at their own job interview because you couldn't be up-front enough about it to post it on the hiring page, then that's already enough of a red flag that i already closed the tab
- There are more things you could ask about even if the job description is good, though.
  As a software engineer I like to ask questions about the team dynamic. I'm not interested in working with a bunch of bros, so having some diversity in the team is good.
  
  Very true. Good coworkers can make work a lot more bearable.
  Looking a bit into the company's business can help, too. If they do something vaguely interesting that can be a bonus. I ignored that once in favor of perks and that got me into the complete disaster area that is fintech. Don't make the same mistake.
  
  I dont know. Maybe ive been unlucky but "diversity" has meant a lot of people with very different personalities, which has meant that people dont become friends. Has it meant something different to you? Maybe for you its the other way, and you dont have anything incommon with the typical worker (whatever bro means in this context, maybe males and you are female?) , so you welcome more people like yourself.
  Doesnt everyone actually want collegues that are as close to yourself in personality as possible so you feel you have common ground?
  
  Asking questions about the team and the work is how one detects and avoid shitty environments.

I care about what work I do. I tend to ask about the project at the end of the technical round.
The HR is not going to hear about that.
I am not interested in the company's history, their mission/vision and other propaganda.
All I need to know about the company is, if they will actually pay me on time for the work I have done and that they are not going-under and defaulting on payments.
And since I do care about the work that I do, it matters to me, what will become of the project after the company gets the worth out of it.
And that is where all big-names fail miserably.
You are selling a smartphone/ laptop/ a cloud connected camera/ any product that uses multiple components with their own use?
At the end of support period, you are to openly distribute the documentation for all components.
That way, a camera out of an old smartphone/laptop won't require reverse engineering to be reused with a Pi or sth.
A monitor screen out of a laptop can be used as another monitor, without having to buy another controller from a shady site (yeah, I call AliExpress, a shady site) and the existing eDP controller can be reused, without requiring an Oscilloscope.
When your web-service goes down, the user can make their own interfacer and use the camera on their personal cloud.
- Regarding the payment info is why we need to have companies be more transparent all over the world. In NL it is already mandatory for companies to post some form of an annual report (sometimes very basic) and you can buy them for like 8 euro's or something. That way you can check those and see if how the company is doing in broad lines. If you notice that on their last annual report there iare red flags you can ask about that in your interview or just straith up deny working there since there is a risk they will miss payments.
  
  In NL it is already mandatory for companies to post some form of an annual report (sometimes very basic) and you can buy them for like 8 euro’s or something
  Same in IN, except that the "purchase" seems to be free over here.
- Yeah I'm not asking questions about the technical stuff I'm actually interested in to an HR drone
  
  The answer to "What about us resonated with you?" would be:
  "The job description you put up."

Once I started burning companies the way they've burned me for years, employment got a lot better.
Fuck me? Nah, fuck you.
you won't get a good referral!
bitch, they won't call you anyway. I gave them my boss's personal cell number(my cousin).
- You're married to your cousin? (/sarcasm, mostly)
- I've been asked for a referral twice in my life. Both times the person the referral was for still worked for me, so I got them to write it and just sent it on.
  If somebody wants more money than we pay I won't stand in their way. I also don't care if you get a good employee or not. Shit, I'd write a complete dumb-ass a glowing referral if you're a rival company.
- Your cousin is Art Vandaly?

Those all are questions about the company???

He forgot the red flag emoji.

I actually kinda agree with both here.
It sucks working with someone who is utterly disinterested in the work, if it's anything above rote work.
Asking the candidate what they found interesting about it is at least a basically fine idea. If they can't answer when you ask, that actually is kinda concerning.
Big difference between asking and expecting them to volunteer the information.
At the same time, if the people interviewing you can't even pretend to show basic conversational courtesy by asking some basic "what do you do for fun" style questions or anything that shows they're gonna be interested in the person they're looking to work with, that's a major concern.
- I disagree because most people are applying for everything. So many people are putting in dozens of applications a day. "What resonated with you" is the fact that they're hiring at all. You can learn to love a job and find satisfaction in the work even if the company didn't "resonate" with you.
  
  Right? What resonated? Well it mostly the need to not starve to death and have a roof over my head. What about you?
  
  Sure. I wouldn't disqualify someone for being ambivalent towards what we're working on, but the person who seems interested is gonna be better to work with.
  Likewise when looking for a place to work, if the tangibles are equivalent I'll prefer the place with better intangibles.
  I'm not in HR or management, so I don't care about cost effectiveness or productivity beyond "not screwing me over". From that perspective, it's generally nicer to work with someone who finds it interesting than with someone who doesn't.
  There's no point asking "why do you want to work here", because the answer is obviously a combination of money and benefits, and how food and healthcare keeps you from being dead.
  I can't fault an interviewer who's clearly trying not to ask the obvious question and instead actually ask how the candidate feels about the work instead of disqualifying them for not volunteering the right answer.
  It's not unreasonable for an employer to ask a candidate how they feel about the work anymore than it's unreasonable for the candidate to ask about the working environment.
  
  Researchable before going there

If HR isn't asking candidates about themselves as a person, or is only asking generic "Tell me about yourself" kinds of questions, then **they are doing it wrong. **
On the other side if a candidate doesn't have any questions about their future work environment, not just the role they applied for, then they too are doing it wrong. A candidate should care about whether they would fit into an environment / culture.
At its core employment is a relationship and both sides should treat it that way.
- Not in HR, but am involved in the hiring process. We are not allowed to ask personal questions. Cant talk about family or personal background. If i ask a question about someones family and they tell me they have 5 kids, and they dont get the job because we found a better candidate, they have a clear and obvious path to file a discrimination case.
  "I didnt get hired because they knew i had 5 kids and they assumed I wouldn't be able to dedicate time to the company yada yada."
  " i told them that my religion was xyz and they knew my religious holidays dont align with their holiday schedule and they didnt hire me because they didnt want to make new policy to allow me my time and give me my protected right to religion"
  Its just easier to not
  
  My go to is "what do you do for fun?". It accomplished the same goal of getting an idea of the candidate as a person without getting into personal/family life. Most people love to talk at length about their favorite shit if they think someone is interested in listening.
  
  What is this for, absolute bullshit? You want to find somebody who fits in the team, that's exactly why you want to get to know them during the hiring process. It's the same BS as that people shouldn't have pictures on their resume in the US. It's not like you can see based on first name and lastname(s) or if they even have second,. third, fourth etc names where the person generally has roots in a lot of cases. If you want to discriminate you can based on name as well.
  Edit: Companies shouldn't discriminate, but not adding certain info to your resume or not asking certain questions isn't going to help against discrmination.
  
  Just curious, but doesn't this mean that this system is easy to bypass? Just because you don't ask about their family doesn't mean they are not going to share it. Just saying something like "enjoying the summer so far?" As a conversation starter could trigger a "oh yeah, spending it with my 5 kids" response.
  And someone who already knows that a discrimination case could be made can just easily put his religion or family or whatever into whatever response they feel like even if it doesn't make sense for the question.
  It just seems easy too easy for someone to be able to do this just because they said something. Or does it only apply if you ask?
- Sure, but most of the time you don't have a lot of time to shop around for a job you like. You have to pay rent and "we didn't vibe well" is not an acceptable reason to give your dependents when they ask why you didn't take a job and are now being evicted.
  
  That's different. That's when you go to a temp agency until you find something better.
- Yeah, some of the bandwagonny replies I'm seeing in this thread do not make their posters sound like someone you'd want to spend your working life sat next to.
  You don't have to show interest in the company to help the CEO get richer, but you should probably show an interest in the company because it's where you're going to be spending 1/3rd of your entire waking hours from now on, and you're going to have a fucking miserable time of it if you've already decided to mentally check out before you've even got to the interview. Have some self-respect.

I couldn't give less of a fuck about any company or their "projects", selling a product is not a mission to empower users and help the world or some bullshit like that.

I like reading the comments more than the post itself
- Same. There's so much here that's just excellent.

Can't we just be honest and agree to coexist in a state of mutually despising each other?

Uno beeeoootttttchhhh. You know, everything's consolidating. There are very few mid-sized companies anymore. It's funny seeing the managerial class dig their own grave. Everybody thinks everybody's gonna leave everyone with the bag. Justice is always served. Don't have kids.
- Individually those are recognizable opinions but I don’t see how they all flow together

102 comments