2w ago

billionaire rule

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Trump is a felon, so I am not sure "lawful" is the best fit.
- The lawful/chaotic axis represents a person's willingness to follow an external set of rules against their own instincts or opinions. Having a pocket judge or a pocket president to legitimize one's actions does not make that person lawful.
- Trump isn't a felon... He's a multi-felon.
  
  Also ~~a convicted rapist~~ found responsible in a civil rape trial.
  Pedants.
- He's definitely chaotic evil.
- He's neutral evil at best
- Lots of devils in the Nine Hells fucked up

A couple of them might be chaotic.
- Thats a weird way of all spelling all of them but sure

Lawful? Really?
- Yeah, there is a convicted felon and an illegal immigrant right there.
- I guess it’s meant to say the law is whatever they say it is.

Fun fact none of them are lawful
- They paid congress a lot of money to say that they actually are lawfull
- In the d&d alignment chart they are because capitalists have no inherent power outside of the laws that enforce their property. Devils in D&D will always break the rules(and rebel) if they think they can get away with it.
  
  Huh? Devils are the corporate "trap you in fineprint and kill you with subclauses" type of evil. They are the ones who sell you the monkey's paw and come to collect your soul no matter how it shakes out. Catching them in airtight clauses (or narrow loopholes) is famously how you screw over devils.

Hahahahaha Hahaha haha "Lawful"

Chaotic Neutral
- Lawful evil
- Still evil.

Trump is more Chaotic Evil
- Facts. D&D defines the chaotic/lawful divide as whether or not the character abides by a code, ethos, or set of rules. So not "Law" in the "Legal Eagle Law Team" kind of way. Chaotic Evil characters don't really play by any rules, are unpredictable, and are just plain the worst.
  
  Sounds like Trump.
  
  Slightly debatable which version of evil is the worst. I'd agree that I'd probably rather have a Lawful Evil head of state right now than what we've got.
- It's why he's not a billionaire. Zing!

I'd put Trump and Musk into 'chaotic'
Definitely evil though.
- No need to describe them in any way but just ...
  Evil

lawful
- As in can dictate law
- As in “full of law”
  Like, just jam-packed stuffed to the gills with law, to the point where they vomit law out into the world and we all boil to death slowly in their law-infused stomach acid

This only counts because they use their money to make their lives "lawful" through legislation and capture of the courts, minimizing their very real crimes against humanity.
Okay perhaps Buffett, Gates, and Cook haven't gone as far as actual crimes against humanity but the rest have, and Buffett, Gates, and Cook are still unlawful but used their money to twist the laws in their favor.
- By definition you can not get this rich without stealing the value of peoples labour - at scale.
  Aka evil as shit.
- In D&D lawful alignments apply more towards a doctrine the character follows, not necessarily the actual law.
- You don't understand Lawful Evil.
  In the Nine Hells, bending and breaking rules to your whim is the norm. It's whether you get caught, and piss off someone powerful, that matters.
  
  breaking rules means they're not lawful. that's why demons are generaly described as chaotic
  if you do something unlawful, it means you're not lawful, it doesn't matter if you're caught or not

unless by lawful you mean they manipulate the law however they please with their money and connections, then no.
- um, yeah. that's literally the difference.
  lawful evil is "evil in a suit and tie" while chaotic evil is "monstrous, uncivilized evil."
- You miss the point of the law
- That's the entire schtick of lawful evil. Manipulation, extortion, background deals, and all that.

Nah, don't forget that DJT is a convicted felon.

i feel like it should be more chaotic evil
- Ah but they're the ones that make the laws.
  
  Thats... Thats not how that alignment chart works at all :p. Lawful means they just follow the teachings of something, not that they themselves dictate it.
  Chaotic is all for your own personal gain
  
  So, Demon Lords are lawful then?

Remember there's the neutral axis
Some are chaotic neutral. They're not out to wreck stuff, they just don't care if they do

Some off them i see more as unfawfull ( when noboddy is looking ) evil

Bill does some genuinely good stuff. I'm sure he does some bad stuff too though.
- there's a book about that, "no such thing as a free gift: the gates foundation and the price of philanthropy"
- It's actually pretty interesting some of the effects his philanthropic efforts have had.
  I think the bottom line is that billionaires shouldn't exist, all said and done.
  
  billionaires shouldn't exist, all said and done.
  Absolutely agreed.
- Now he's got his he is. In the 80-00 he was as nasty a fucker as all the rest are now.
  
  That doesn't surprise me.
- Dude was actually best friends with Jeffery Epstein. Like he wanted to hang out with him casually in New York.

Trump is Chaotic Evil.
- Nah, he's neutral evil since he both breaks the law when he wants to and exploits it when he can.
  Aa law isn't inherently good or evil, that axis doesn't have anything to do with HOW evil he is.
  In fact, I'd argue that, in a world where some laws (like "don't murder" and "don't enslave your workers") are good but others (like "you don't have equal rights if you're any kind of minority or a woman" or "corporations have all of the rights of people and none of the responsibilities") are inherently oppressive, the only consistently GOOD alignment is Neutral Good.
  
  The chaotic good alignment isn't any less good because they can simply follow the just laws and break the unjust laws. They might resent the institution of law, but they aren't obliged to do the opposite of the law, they just will do it for their own reasons instead of the legality. They're still fundamentally good.
  A lawful good character would probably prefer legal methods to fight legal injustice, while a chaotic good character might prefer to break the law as they don't see legal methods as worth anything/don't recognize its authority. Both are Good, but they might use different methods when confronted with the same problem.

I see you wisely chose to leave Taylor Swift off of your chart.
No one wants the Swifties on their asses. :D
- Fuck that, no such thing as a good billionaire and all but one of her songs (Trouble) are boring.
  
  Eh, she's one of the few in her genre that actually writes their own music. She's earned the money. Being mad because that money happens to be an insane amount is childish.

Thiel is so evil he doesn't even fit this chart.

Why did you post a Bristol stool chart?

Funny to live in times when Villains are in power. Probably in 2060s they will compare them with Hitler.
- Seems rather optimistic ...

Is Trump a billionerr?
- In real estate assets alone, thanks to his pops

Lawful?
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alignment_(Dungeons_%26_Dragons) and similar systems
  
  Trump chances his mind on policies constantly. He's governing through chaos. So again Lawful?
  
  I understand what it is, but I strongly disagree that it applies to these monsters.
- A throwback to a series of books that (almost) no one talking about the D&D alignment axes (the axes came from the ideas of the books) knows of anymore: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elric_of_Melnibon%C3%A9 There are actual gods/forces of law and chaos.
  
  I understand that. Why would anyone think any of these men are lawful?

You got me, I immediately scanned the 4 corners for "good" and then sat confused wondering how I misread it.

evil (but appearing largely lawful)

I remember a critique of DnD alignments for using 'neutral' instead of 'selfish' and this grid really proves that argument I think.
- The biggest problem with d&d axes is that people try to pick an alignment and then have their character's actions come from it (and the resulting frequently induced cross-table talk with the eye-rolling phrase "a lawful/neutral/chaotic good/neutral/evil character wouldn't do that! You're X/Y, so you wouldn't do that!").
  No real person has every action fall within one of the outlying boxes' bounds. Actually 'moving' yourself from the neutral spot is (supposed to be) beyond most mortals.
  
  In quite a few cases across the different editions, this behavior is enforced by class requirements. Though even then it's still dumb to argue about that unless you're at the point that the GM has to seriously consider changing your alignment because your actions are so far beyond your character's on-paper alignment.

They're all Neutral Evil.
The worst kind of evil.

trump is definitely chaotic evil, musk at the very least neutrail evil and many of the others as well

Warren Buffet is a massive philanthropist and plans to give away most of his fortune to charitable causes before he dies.
His fortune was also made primarily through long term investment strategies. Didn't fuck anyone, didn't burn people out.
- Continuing to prop up the system that is fucking people over and burning people out.... Yeah there's no "good" billionaire, no matter how "philanthropic" they are.
  
  Philanthropy is bullshit anyway
  
  Continuing to prop up the system that is fucking people over and burning people out....
  Propping it up how?
- And were all those long term investments in companies that were etical?
  
  Were they? Do you know?
  I don't know that answer.
- plans to give away most of his fortune to charitable causes before he dies.
  I'll believe that when I see it. Also, lots of charity organizations are very sketchy.

120 comments