Many such cases.

2 days? He said 2 weeks haha

Well he's cooked and proob chopped as well

The average Winblows user doesn't even know how to lock the screen without using their mouse or touchpad. Don't give me that "It's hard for people" bullshit. Most people can barely handle recognizing icons, which are the same regardless of OS.

OneNote re-installing and re-adding itself to my startup after I absolutely turned it into swiss cheese was my final nail in the coffin.

Windows now lives in an image file that I can boot into using Linux as a thin client to start up a Windows VM for the occasional time I need to do some heavy Excel work. Absolute trashware.

I wish we as a community could stop with this sense of superiority

Not possible in a Linux community. They have only three jokes:

• Fuck windows
• I'm so smart for using the superior software stack (and everybody is an idiot for not switching)
• and my personal favorite: constantly trying to trick people into using FOSS software by telling everybody they're as good even in cases where they're clearly not (bro please use GIMP it's actually really good bro as soon as you understand its archaic 1998 user interface it's just as good as photoshop bro please)

I hear you. I have 3 machines: my main rig, a light laptop and a server. The main rig is on Windows 10 LTSC and the server is on Linux (goes without saying).

When I bought the laptop I decided to use it only with Linux as a way to squeeze it's resources but also as a way to figure it how realistic it would be to use Linux exclusively. After starting on Mint and hopping to Arch I ended up on Debian and I'm quite satisfied with it. But I also realized it would never work on my main rig. Lots of stuff and software would just not work the same way. Would it be usable, yes. But it would be mostly workarounds instead of the perfect setup I have built.

Linux will definitely get there. It's improving fast. But telling people that don't know better to just switch only to find out half of what they did will now have to be done with workarounds and hassles is dishonest and does not help Linux at all. When Linux is perfect those people will already be burned and resist it needlessly.

I spent 1-2 hours debloating Windows and it turns out Windows update doesn't work unless you turn back on the Windows firewall service.

I forgot how I disabled it in the first place, so I gave up and installed Linux

To be fair power users tend to be terrible with social skills. But you are right that this is essentially just linux users bragging that they learned something difficult. Power users also tend to be awful teachers so that might be part of the frustration on both sides.

I recommend downloading a Live Linux distribution and booting it from a USB stick.

This let's you try out linux without making any changes to your Windows setup. It also lets you make sure linux detects all your computer's hardware. If the live session works fine, the it will detect all that same hardware when you install it for real.

I installed Linux on a secondary hard drive in case I needed to get back on Windows for anything. So far it's been a few months and I haven't needed to, so I'm considering having Windows in a virtual machine or just getting rid of Windows instead.

My favorite is the pcmr type that says Linux is to hard, but their comment history recommends registry edits to keep edge from becoming the default browser or something stupid.

Because nobody actually spends 2 weeks debloating and using Linux desktop isn't easier. This community exaggerates the difficulty of windows while minimizing Linus desktop issues.

This meme is basically a late night infomercial.

This is my friend. Had a Steam Deck and couldn't figure out Steam OS so they installed Windows on it instead. He's very tech literate but somehow can't grasp Linux. On the other hand, I've transitioned fine to Linux Mint.

That person is not technically skilled since it took them 2 weeks to debloat, what shouldn't take more than a few hours.

The problem is that the people lacking those technical skills are struggling with Windows, too, but got brain-washed into believing that this is how it's supposed to be. And they are somehow also the ones defending Windows bullshit the loudest because else they would need to acknowledge being wrong.

This was physically painful to read

Thing is the people that never needed Windows, also didn't really need a PC...

Gamers seem to be an exception, and while WINE/Proton are good, they're not infallible. I can't even get WINE running unless it's running as root, which I don't really want to do, and it took a lot of faff to get it to even do that. Wasn't even anything complex, just a basic Win32 app I'd done as a test.

There is such a massive amount to unlearn. I've dabbled with Linux several times and everytime i keep running into the same issues: literally everything is different, and I have to Google literally every step of every task I want to do, there are at least 14 ways of achieving every task, I don't understand what the differences are nor any implications of choosing are completely opaque to me. if it doesnt work I have no grounding to understand what went wrong or how to articulate my problem when trying to find help.

Im not unsavy, i can program, i understand how to use a command line, I managed to set up a raspberry pi at work that boots into Firefox in kiosk mode to display a Google sheet of daily tasks. I can even remote into it if I need to do things.

Except now Firefox gives a notification that the version installed is no longer supported, and when I click update I get a rather obtuse message saying that update isn't available for this flavour of Firefox on this flavour of Linux, googling the message sent me down a confusing network of rabbit holes that just got less and less understandable to the point that once the thing stops working ill have to just nuke the whole thing and start from scratch because that will be easier in the long run.

So no, I don't feel like having this sort of problem on my main desktop at home thanks.

It's not that deep in terms of Linux, while I think it seriously is hard to learn for most it's not so hard to take more than 1 month to use it just as good as you could with windows

I'm commenting because a single upvote doesnt adequately convey how much I agree with this comment.

Ironic that they are on Linux, as ChromeOS is Gentoo, but it's the worst possible distro to use.

You're 100% right.

Linux Mint is not hard to learn at all, it's almost identical to windows.

The problem is the random ass shit you have to debug that the average user will not do and conclude Linux sucks.

IE if you have an Nvidia card, which shit loads of people do, you will struggle with bullshit just having two monitors...

If you have Logitech devices, which shit load of people do, you won't have drivers and you'll have to fuck around dealing with shit.

In addition to other quirky shit that happens on Linux some not really Linux fault and some just is.

That said one of the good things about chat gtp / ai is that they are actually really helpful at debugging Linux.

So yea... Linux isn't just plug and play, the way windows is. Windows steals your data and has shit loads of bloat but just like cellphones the average person doesn't give a shit nor does he understand how / why windows is awful.

Depends what you want to do. I have installed Linux for some people and they were perfectly happy with it and never touched the command line. While for me barely a day goes by using Linux that I don't touch the command line for something.

I don't get what you should "learn"

This.

When switching to Android/iOS/ChromeOS/... people also aren't expected to "learn" that OS.

Actually, stop telling people to "deal with" Windows (okay, this one is pretty weak). Windows is either supposed to be easily navigable without going through a dozen of buttons-tabs-subwindows, ot it's not the right thing for most people

Either dumb it down, or don't expect people to use it

I remember people laughing about that Rumsfeld speech but I just feel like those people didn't really get what he meant

what aboot unknown knowns, those are my favorite

Yup, with ya brother. I have Microsoft certifications dating back to NT4. I've never been bothered by anything Microsoft has done, with the possible exception of WinME. I have done thousands of installs for friends and family. When MS started actively preventing me from installing W11 to "older" hardware and requiring a login, I started looking into Linux. I had run Slackware in the 90s so figured Arch couldn't be that bad... It was actually easier than I remembered.

That was 2 years ago. This past weekend my Dad had somehow been force upgraded even though I had group policies in place to prevent upgrades past 22H2, and he wasn't happy with the result. Brought Linux Mint, booted from the USB and asked him to do everything he normally does on Windows. Almost all of his activities are browser based so I installed it and have yet to get any calls asking questions.

Funny how people write a long essay why they stay on Windows, claiming what a hassle it is to set up Linux. Sure, you might know how do deal with Windows, but don't expect that other systems work the same way. Windows is the odd one.

If you depend on Windows-only software, there is nothing wrong with sticking to it. Use the system that fits your needs the most.

no good daw

Ardour!

The potential pain with setups is a reason I like to point people at vendors like Slimbook, Tuxedo Computers or System76. Avoids a lot of possible problems for those who can afford it.

there's no good DAW on Linux

Now that's not true though. Bitwig Studio and Reaper f.e. support all the common plugins APIs and are excellent professional DAWs. And then of course you also got Ardour if you prefer FOSS.

Things like Adobe Premiere Pro and Adobe After Effects have no solid alternative to this day for Linux

I'm not perfectly familiar with Adobe products, but I'm very positive that DaVinci Resolve, Lightworks (literally used by Hollywood), Blender and Natron offer all the functionality those two do. And most likely with less crashes, as far as I heard about Premiere Pro. 🙃

Office uses proprietary file format constraints to lock down their ecosystem.

Didn't hear about issues with Office Suites in more than a decade. Microsoft famously manipulated their docs to hamper third-party apps in implementing docx support, that's quite a time ago though.

Unreal Engine, lots games, my audio interface, drivers for obscure small devices I need? I just don't know and I have to dedicate time to researching all of it.

Yeah, hardware is always a thing especially during a switch. Once you made it of course you can pick new gear that's known to be supported on Linux by their company. At least with Unreal Engine it's known to work, and Games by now basically always do except for those with the most vile Anti-Cheat.

I bought a notebook and will try to go CachyOS x KDE Plasma on that

May I suggest to use a more general-use, Ubuntu-based distro? Those often offer way better hardware support for more devices out of the box. That's one reason they're called bloated, but damn is it comfy sometimes.

Ugh I feel this. I work for 8 hours 5 days a week with weekends off and about 5 hours of relaxation after every workday before I do it over again.

I really really.... Really do not consider it being "fun" to troubleshoot or hunt to fix issues in the spare time that I have between work and I do not wish to spend my fleeting time off doing something like this

Seems like you already went through the journey :)

I would say though before switching to Linux, switch all your critical apps to the one available on Linux first. Get used to it and when your are finally comfortable, switch your OS. No need to switch all of them in one go. If for whatever reason you are never get comfortable with the trade-off, just stay on Windows. It is fine.

The problem is you used Debian which is missing bug fixes for KDE, and is on a frankly ancient 5.27 - I have had nothing but an awesome experience on KDE 6, with both VRR, and HDR, working under Wayland.

Recommend trying a rolling release

You spent more than 15 minutes changing wallpaper in Plasma? I smell bs because it's really simple.

Right-click on desktop:

Pick an image from the list, or add your own images (“Add...”):

After you click “Add...”:

The last windows I used was 10, and I remember the process being very similar.

Usually that is a oom situation in my experience, check out earlyoom

I used to have a Linux/Win 11 dual boot.

After about 6 months I stopped using Windows altogether. After about a year I just wiped the drive and went 100% Linux because Windows becomes a liability when it does BIOS updates you don't want or need to ensure that it's the only OS on the machine.

For the vast majority of usecases it is ready, niche applications sure, but most people could use linux these days.

I mostly just game and browse the Internet and my daily driver is Linux. I have not come across anything that I needed Windows for so far, in a year and a half of not using Linux. There may be some games I was vaguely interested in that don't run easily on Linux, but day to day tasks, 3d printing/slicing software, basic image editing software, browsers, coding IDEs, all work native on Linux.

Sure, if there is a specific software that you really want to use, maybe that specific software isn't available on Linux. But one individual running into multiple things that only run on Windows sounds like it is a fairly specific use case. At best, someone might need to use an alternative program. At worst, maybe that person needs to keep a windows environment around. But that doesn't seem like the case for the majority of people.

For me Linux surpassed the Windows desktop experience in 1996 and even though Windows 2000 was a pretty good upgrade, I don't think it has surpassed desktop Linux yet. Windows 10 was not bad either, but now that has gone mostly downhill whereas Linux has merely plateaud at worst or has been improving slowly at best.

Until the next re-bloating update where your settings get reverted and services re-installed.

Being good at de-bloating (as you may very well be to do that in a few minutes!) is an anti-skill that shouldn't have to exist.

I mean, 10 minutes is pretty optimistic even for a relatively savy user. It took me somewhere around an hour to find and fix everything. On the other hand, it took me and a bunch of people on the Linux support subreddit around 20 hours of troubleshooting to get Linux into a mostly functional state on my PC, at which point I and everyone else had given up, so...

Its been nearly two years since then though, and given what a nightmare Windows 11 is, I guess I'll have to give it another shot.

10 minutes is enough only for "Oh, that's too difficult, let's pretend that I'm content with Windows as it is"

extremely not tech-savvy

You managed to make an account and post on Lemmy so you're probably underestimated your technical knowledge. That being said IMHO it's best to first list what software you use then find alternatives that work on Linux. Once that's done then yes sure try whatever distribution you want.

Sure, here are instructions for getting Linux Mint running: https://www.linuxmint.com/download.php

These instructions are for creating a USB flash drive that functions as both a live environment or an installer. If you don't want to install it yet, this allows you to try it out while booting just from the flash drive, without modifying your hard drive at all.

Give CachyOS a shot

https://cachyos.org/

I do free infinite troubleshooting on matrix and specialize in this exact situation, feel free to message me. I recommend something based on immutable fedora because it's breakage resistant (immutable means the core system is read only and updates all at once on reboot) and fedora because it's very up to date but still stable, try aurora (it's fedora immutable with some small improvements)

do kde, always kde or gnome unless you know what you're doing, but kde is better

If you're not humblebragging, perhaps you oughta get a Linux-preinstalled laptop like System76.

If you were humblebragging, check out https://fedoraproject.org/workstation/ and get the Plasma edition.

If you know the right tool for the task, very few things take time. IMHO what's more problematic is that with enshitification you're swimming upstream. Sure as long as the maintainer finds the right trick, you can postpone indefinitely bad "surprises" but ultimately, why do so when proper alternatives more aligned with your Worldview exist?

something that's as close as windows in perfomance as windows 10 is

You’ll notice better load times on Linux 9 times out of 10 than any variant of Windows. With that being said, I would suggest Kubuntu.

Yep. Been using it for years, there's no way I could go back to any other version. Unfortunately still comes with fucked up default settings and you do need to tinker with it for privacy, but it's still miles ahead of any home edition for that.

Wow you are so smart, good for you...ZkhqrD5o...if that is your real name!