In 6 hours it will be illegal to say "I support Palestine Action" in the UK, with a sentence of up to 14 years in prison.
Being a member of, or showing support for, the direct action protest group will be a criminal offence after judge’s decision
Can someone explain why so many countries support what’s happening in Palestine? Whats going on behind the scenes here?
I do think the situation is more complicated than Lemmy would have you believe.
Both Iran and Hamas have been geopolitical issues for a long time. And it's worth remembering that all of this was kicked off by a large scale terrorist attack perpetrated by Hamas.
It's also worth noting that Iran is a Russian puppet, and Europe obviously has some "neighbor problems" with Russia at the moment, so there's a sort of baked in desire to oppose their vassal states.
And, while I think everyone would agree that the loss of civilian life is terrible, there is a huge amount of misinformation that makes it hard to be sure what's going on. Hamas does have a long history of screwing over the civilian Palestinian population to further it's political goals, and so people are willing to give Israel a little more credence than they deserve when they claim things like "Hamas was hiding in that hospital" or "we're blocking aid because Hamas is hoarding it all to drive up tensions" or "it was Hamas who shot those civilians," because it actually wouldn't be the first time any of that had credibly happened. Something of a boy-cried-wolf scenario.
Add into that genuine desire to combat real anti-Semitism that's been a fallout of this whole situation (a problem that hits pretty close to home in Europe due to events of the past century), and you can see why some people might be a bit over-eager to support Israel in this conflict.
It's worth noting there are no good guys here. Israel is obviously in the wrong, and are committing horrible atrocities. I think that much is plain on its face. But Hamas and Iran have both had "the destruction of the state of Israel" as stated policy goals for the past 80 years. The reason Israel has the Iron Dome is because they've been getting missiles lobbed at them non-stop for decades.
And when there are no good guys, people tend to just align themselves with who they like more, or who they owe more to.
Most western countries have committed genocide or invasion in very recent history. Either in the context of WWII, colonialism or economic interests. Countries don't magically change over night. Wouldn't it be more surprising if they didn't support their ally?
Most western countries have committed genocide or invasion in very recent history. Either in the context of WWII, colonialism or economic interests. Countries people don't magically change over night. Wouldn't it be more surprising if they didn't support their ally?
There. Fixed that for you. Dont have to thank me, its good.
Big Israeli lobby. Bribes and Epstein blackmail.
At risk of sounding like that dipshit Vance, you guys don’t have free speech, not really. The uk seems to exist in a “yes, but no” realm. The press can’t report on trials such that it might influence outcome. 1988 law iirc. That’s smart, but it’s still a guardrail on speech. Some of the arrests and even sentences over there, for speech and sometimes even ideology related infractions, are a bit wild. I remember reading something about a woman being fined for calling her ex a leprechaun on social media.
That said, I feel a need to reiterate how crazy this defense of war and slaughter is. I’ve been a casual observer at best but I do not understand why either government cares if a people across an ocean (who are not and never will be boots on the ground for either side of this war) say they don’t like a war. So what? The war will rage on regardless of wether or not college students in Michigan walk around outside on a nice day holding signs. Or if some guy in London posts an objection on social media. That’s not even a speed bump to this war or either government if either government even sees or hears any of it. So why does either government even care? Why even spend energy on that? For them, it’s like a volume setting that maybe can’t be turned to zero, but in the end it’s just a bit of noise to them. So why bother? The war will continue. As such, their reaction makes no sense whatsoever.
I think it makes sense when you consider there are many government workers who do not support the genocide of Palestinians, and would be more vocal about it if they the political capital that, say, a large protest nets you.
It's actually possible to end this with only the ingredients we have available right now.
The Met statement (https://news.met.police.uk/news/update-on-policing-in-london-following-proscription-of-palestine-action-499157) includes a 'report your neighbour' statement; "If you see material supporting terrorism online report it – visit www.gov.uk/ACT
You can also report suspicious activity by contacting the police in confidence on 0800 789 321."
Use this information wisely.
And i thought police in the V for Vendetta movie was extreme. Reality is a bitch.
Luckily I’m not from Terf island (although things aren’t looking so good around here either), but I support Palestine action
Every British politician belongs in a mass grave. Just a total stain on humanity
Yeah but that's been the opinion of the British public since the 1960s. Calling every British politician a useless skidmark (preferably to their face) is as close as we get to patriotism.
Save some room for the American politicians though please too.
Dangerous and many voted against it. We already had politicians dead across both sides of the pond. Shouldn't be encouraging this BS.
As long as you don't touch Corbyn
Bah, he can get in the sea as well, he supported brexit
Time to make a new group and to spite them call it "palestine 2 action"
2 Palestine 2 Action
I'm more shocked it hasn't already happened to Extinction Rebellion, Insulate Britain or Just Stop Oil.
But I guess blockading motorways and rocking up to art museums dressed like extras from a Wham music video and defacing paintings makes you less of a threat than wanting Netanyahu to stop his genocide of the Palestinian people.
There are few things I like about being an American, but one of them is the first amendment. It doesn't always work, and Trump is sure to try some shit like this soon, but at least I know for now I won't go to prison for saying that I do indeed support Palestine Action
As long they can send people to torture prisons without due process or evidence, we do NOT have a First Amendment.
Or a 5th or 14th amendment
You could absolutely go to prison for it. A group of people in an unmarked van can grab you, send you to a prison in your country or even somewhere else, where you will be tortured possibly to death, and even if there will be an international fuss about it, nobody will ever do anything about it.
There is no more laws in your country, none.
Not only is the ruling wrong - it is the very thing it claims to be opposing. It is itself an act of terrorism, carried out with the intention of inspiring fear in the British public to further a political agenda.
In every way, the British government is replicating the actions it accuses PA of - except that the scale of harm to British society and the terror inspired is magnitudes greater, and performed in service of the opposite political goal.
This is a terror attack by the government against the British people.
The British people's opinion and will are the thing from which the goverment gains it's only source of legitimacy - and they do not line up with the government on this issue.
But evidently the government believes in a different model of legitimacy: they believe that legitimacy is derived from the mere fact that they hold power. In the mind of the government and it's supporters, the difference between a terrorist organisation and a legitimate government is just power and only power. To them, right and wrong has absolutely nothing to do with it. They think that they are winning, and that they are going to get away with it. Nothing else matters.
But evidently the government believes in a different model of legitimacy: they believe that legitimacy is derived from the mere fact that they hold power.
*Macht macht Recht"
Ignorance is strength freedom is slavery war is peace
Just to be clear because everybody seems to be missing this point.
Palestinian Action, is an organisation. Membership of that group is banned, it is not illegal to support Palestinians or to call out Israel's genocide. The government doesn't like it when you do, but it's not actually illegal for you to do it.
This organisation broke into a UK air force base in order to protest. They are not being charged because they protested, they're being charged for breaking in and damaging a lot of military equipment. I think it's a bit far to call them terrorists, but you can sort of see the government's point, if you squint.
The UK government does however absolutely deserve to get it in the neck for their support of Israel. Labour have had a pretty awkward relationship with Israel in particular and anti-Semitism in general for a long time, and they're now keen to be seen as supporters, but there are limits.
Thank you for this clarification. This is an extremely important context. "Palestine Action" is the particular name of a very specific organization, so the title of the article is obviously a bit misleading.
Still very worrying and more than a bit concerning, though. Here's to hoping for a future strengthening of UK speech laws. Though, frankly, I'm not so sure about US speech laws anymore. Cheers.
Yes and I support that particular organization and the actions they perform. From what it sounds like reading the article, this very comment makes me a criminal in the UK
God bless the first amendment 🦅🇺🇲
I think it’s a bit far to call them terrorists,
Did you mean "a bit unfair"? Because I don't see how anybody would be terrorized by this. It's clearly illegal but using terrorism here is very problematic, especially since what the military does to people in the middle easy is actual terrorism but not called that.
Afaik the "anti-Semitism in Labour" was basically a made up smear by the Labour Party themselves to prevent Jeremy Corbyn getting elected. Not sure about other instances though.
The fighter planes they threw red paint at are terrorized. One of them isn't leaving the room and it's shaking all the time
What anti-Semitism where they accused of?
I don't think it was ever anything concrete. Some members of the Labour Party made some comments that could potentially have been interpreted as being anti-semitic. Everyone went absolutely crazy, without anything in the way of evidence, and it caused a major political scandal. Labour themselves made the whole situation infinitely worse by not properly investigating the allegations, which made it look like they were trying to protect people. In reality I think it was just incompetence.
It was the very definition of a storm in a teacup, essentially nothing had happened but the opposition parties reacted as if it was some major scandal for the sole purpose of political point scoring.
Labour subsequently lost the 2019 elections and the suggestion was it was because of this scandal.
So when Starmer became leader one of the things he said he was going to do was root out anti-Semitism within the party (no matter how much he had to dig for it), this was around 2020 but he had been campaigning about it since around 2018. Anyway when he became leader there was a big bust up where he got rid of anyone he thought was being anti-semitic (again there was a lot of doubt about whether or not they were being). Then in 2024 they won the election. So ever since then they've been very careful to not appear anti-semitic to the point at which they are refusing to even acknowledge Israel's war crimes.
This is all especially annoying since they would have won the 2024 general election no matter what because the Conservatives were polling so badly. So this big arguement about anti-Semitism was completely unnecessary. Had it not happened Labour would still be in power, but would be less inclined to shy away from criticism of Israel.
They are not being charged because they protested, they’re being charged for breaking in and damaging a lot of military equipment. I think it’s a bit far to call them terrorists, but you can sort of see the government’s point, if you squint.
Out of curiosity, I looked up the US Federal definition of terrorism ::: spoiler definition
- the term "domestic terrorism" means activities that-
- involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;
- appear to be intended-
- to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;
- to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or
- to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and
- occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States :::
Due to the element danger to human life, their definition wouldn't fit.
However, the UK legal definition ::: spoiler definition
- In this Act “terrorism” means the use or threat of action where—
- the action falls within subsection (2),
- the use or threat is designed to influence the government [or an international governmental organisation][^F1] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public, and
- the use or threat is made for the purpose of advancing a political, religious [, racial][^F2] or ideological cause.
- Action falls within this subsection if it—
- involves serious violence against a person,
- involves serious damage to property,
- endangers a person’s life, other than that of the person committing the action,
- creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public, or
- is designed seriously to interfere with or seriously to disrupt an electronic system.
- The use or threat of action falling within subsection (2) which involves the use of firearms or explosives is terrorism whether or not subsection (1)(2) is satisfied.
- In this section—
- “action” includes action outside the United Kingdom,
- a reference to any person or to property is a reference to any person, or to property, wherever situated,
- a reference to the public includes a reference to the public of a country other than the United Kingdom, and
- “the government” means the government of the United Kingdom, of a Part of the United Kingdom or of a country other than the United Kingdom.
- In this Act a reference to action taken for the purposes of terrorism includes a reference to action taken for the benefit of a proscribed organisation. ::: is wild: no danger to human life required, merely serious damage to property suffices!
[F1]: Words in s. 1(1)(2) inserted (13.4.2006) by Terrorism Act 2006 (c. 11), s. 34; S.I. 2006/1013, art. 2 [F2]: Words in s. 1(1)(3) inserted (16.2.2009) by Counter-Terrorism Act 2008 (c. 28), ss. 75(1)(2)(a), 100(5) (with s. 101(2)); S.I. 2009/58, art. 2(a)
In this Act “terrorism” means the use or threat of action where—
the action falls within subsection (2), the use or threat is designed to influence the government [or an international governmental organisation][1] or to intimidate the public or a section of the public
Wow, so the very act of peaceful protest is now defined as 'terrorism' because the below can be very loosely interpreted in whatever way necessary:
creates a serious risk to the health or safety of the public or a section of the public
"Damaging" they threw red paint at planes.
Meanwhile, british citizens are perfectly free to go volonteer for the IDF
https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2023-12-13/6895
Yeah which is damaging.
I am simply providing information here I am not providing my personal opinion. Please stop trying togenerate arguement where non-exists the waters are already muddied enough.
That's good reason to remind people, that law is written by particular people, mostly to protect those people interests.
and they are already jailing people
Feeding, housing and guarding someone for 14 years has got to be ridiculously expensive. All for uttering a few words.
Do prisoners in the UK do slave labor like in the US?
Technically its not slave labor.
They just out you in solitary confinement with really bad food, zero things to do to pass the time. Psychologically torture you until you agreed to do unpaid/below-minimum-wage work.
"They are voluntarily working!" -the warden said to the judge, while concealing a police baton behind him.
Not yet
Does the colonies have too much power over The Commonwealth?
I'm tired, boss
change the name of your org, make them play wack-a-mole.
Rename it to "Israel Action" (as in, action against Israel)
Then call them antisemitic when they move to ban it.
There appears to be something of a rebrand to "Yvette Cooper".
SHOULD CHANT IT WHILE LOOTING LONDON
UK , USA , who’s next ????????
Germany (AfD)
France (RN)
👀
The most widely celebrated circumstance in the world is being rid of the British government. It’s spawned many holidays.
It is of course somewhat disingenuous to equate the empire to the modern British government. In much the same way that it makes no sense to say that Japan in its current form has any relation to feudal Japan.
Only difference is that they now only have a fraction of their power.
OTOH they 100% have the same horrible attitude.
Like the declining US now doesn't realise they aren't top dog anymore, the Brits who have been surpassed by them for a century still delude themselves and think they can and should dictate what the world should do.
Glad we had Brexit.
Always causing trouble and wanting it their way.
Embarrassing.
They are doing this because Palestine Action has been incredibly effective. They have already forced the closure of two factories in England that produce arms for Israeli defense company Elbit and forced Barclays Bank to divest through sustained sabotage campaigns. No person has been hurt by their actions, yet these actions have cost the genocide supporters millions of pounds and caused months-long disruptions to the production of weapons used in ethnic clean songs around the globe (Elbit weapons are fueling not just the Palestine ethnic cleaning, but Kashmir and DRC, too).
The harder they push their pro-Israel agenda, the more anti-Israel everyone is going to get.
You can't bully us into supporting a genocidal regime.
My fucking brain is so fried.
Both my parents were in World War II. They fought against fascism. I was brought up to feel for what happened to the Jews during that war. Now all I see is that they seem to be being worse than the actual Nazis.
What Israel is doing is very much Nazi like. But saying such will get you banned on Mastodon.social, and probably prosecuted in places like Germany.
Yeah, nah.
The only people who win when you conflate Israel with all Jewish people are Zionists and Neo-Nazis.
I have a feeling they can. If all discourse over social media is anti Palestine and no one can refute it, I give it 10 years max before it would just be a frothing hate for Palestinians with a significant amount of the population.
They are already trying to do this and failing miserably at it. Censorship itself is an admission of guilt and is something that people are really starting to understand. That's basically the point of my original comment: the harder they try to stop dissent, the more guilty they look.
Information can also be spread offline.
This is why the Fediverse and VPNs/Tor etc. are so important.
Codifying your genocide support into law. Nice.
If there is ever justice for Palestine the trials will be short. These bastards are so proud of their support for genocide.
if they promise to only paint things orange on military bases i think that's ok
we'll take their word for it
Looks like the UK is going down the American road here. It's time for all those UK citizens that said, "Rise up now!" to Americans months ago....time to rise up! Give us a great example!
Oh, you can't because you have to work for a living? How about that....
There is also legislation that can be used to arrest most protestors. And you can face a multi-year prison sentence if you say something wrong on social media.
The UK is actually further along the dystopian path than the USA in some ways, but as is tradition they are trying to pretend it's not happening.
UK has always had that 1984/Brazil (the movie, not the not-movie) vibe; it wasn’t all just pulled out of Orwell’s magic butt.
Going down?
Nonviolent direct action has earned them the label "terrorists."
"The closer the collapse of the Empire, the crazier its laws are."
Marcus Tullius CiceroSomeone
When the sentence is the same for non-violent protest and for actual terrorism, don't be surprised if things get more extreme quickly.
Just more newspeak, like Trump calling everything he posts online "truths" while being nothing but lie after lie.
The Ministry of Truth -> MiniTrue
Truth Social -> 💩💨
There needs to be more discussion around separating the country of Israel from its dominant religion. So when people refer to the systematic murder organised by the country, it's understood that it doesn't make any reference to the Jewish people.
People who accuse anti israel occupation of being antisemitic know very well that it's not the case
checks post, 9h
sets VPN to UK
I support Palestine Action
Just to be clear as much as this is an abhorrent thing for them to do, it won't result in anything. The people who they have arrested have already been charged, so this changing the law doesn't have any effect on that legal decision and pretty much no one else is associated with them.
They're a very small very vocal activist group. The general feeling is that they actually did go too far on this. They are not banning protests in general just this particular organisation, which in fairness, did break into a military base so I don't know what they expect it to happen.
So you're probably safe from oppression, even if you were actually in the UK.
They can take it to EU court. oops haha. This is why the elites pushed for Brexit. It wasn’t just to repatriate their money from Cayman Islands tax free. It’s so they can suppress anyone that doesn’t bend the knee.
I support Palestinian action in the UK
So the UK is now officially pro-genocide?
Good to know.
:gestures broadly at history:
Haven't they always been pro genocide?
Ever heard of the East India Company?
It the Irish potato famine?
Ever heard of Churchill and what he (and other British people) did in India? He starved millions to death. Look up Bengali famine.
I support Palestine action
Righto chap, hop in the prison lorry then!
The Fingers noticed, the Nose is after you.
I'm calling the rozzers
Capitalism is genocidal. End capitalism!
Death Death to the IDF!
Really? That's kinda fucked up. How did such a law actually get passed? Who assented to this shit?
There are terrorists in the Govt duh, that's how.
Is it Illegal to say
"It is illegal to say...
I support Palestine Action."
?
Flashback to...
Did you know that it's illegal to say "I want to kill the president of the United States of America"?
(couldn't get piped to load search results :( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmiKenqLVAU )
In the US don’t judges get to put on their reasonable person hat and see through little loopholes sometimes (obviously not always)?
Wonder about the UK, point is I’d only play around if I weren’t afraid of prison (I’m not strong enough to become a martyr for much of anything, pretty weak)
Back in the time after 9:11 they (the red coloured torys) passed some draconian anti-terror laws in the UK (well at least in England and Wales, I'm not so sure about Scotland and Norniron), basically no habeas corpus if the word "terrorism" is involved.
They were exactly worried that judges might put on a 'reasonable person' wig, or do something even more damaging to the free world like ask to see some evidence.
Crazy. I thought Palestine Action was oddly capitalized. They're a fucking group. They're an organization- I thought they were banning supporting ending a genocide, but they're shutting down a based and vandal-pilled activist group.
Uh, I've never heard of them but fuck it. I support Palestine Action. You can't just censor people or opinions out of existence. wtf
Look at the United Kingdom giving the United States a run for their money.
after brexit, nothing was ever the same, they fell for russian propaganda just like the US did, and us is basically going through the initial stages of "USEXIT"
After 1979 really, but more realistically the rot set in a bit earlier in the 70s when the banks were given the power to start cannibalising the economy and got away with blaming the damage on trade unions and OPEC.
Pretty similar timeline for US, i think more or less after JFK when they started destroying FDR legacy.
Surely there is a typo in the headline, only Russia, land of the washing machine CPUs, puts people in jail for words.
democracy
I hate evil.
Fuck Israel, genocidal scum!
Let me refine: "Fuck the Israeli government!" I have no beef with the country / people insofar as they hate their genocidal government.
Really important distinction
Oh 99% (quite a bit less of course) of Israelis support genocide, then fuck Israel! No, you don’t throw babies out with bath water, even when they’re the worst and you’re mad as you should be.
Fuck any genocidal Israeli assholes, but Israel is too big to go blanket on them like this.
Why aren’t we antisemitic, b/c we know what words mean and we’re not antisemitic. Let’s talk like both those are true too.
Netanyahu should lick my pickled taint until he stops murdering kids
insofar as they hate their genocidal government.
The one they continuously support and have for decades?
The only issue they have with Netanyahu is the corruption.
Dystopian clown world strikes again.
Sorry what
It was bad enough when Boris made protests illegal (did that ever go through) but this? This is disgusting.
How can Labour just do own goals day after day I do not know. At this point they’re just a continuation of the sad fucking state of Tory cabinets. From A team to B to D (was Rishi D? ) to fucking a big capital F with Starmer. I had such high hopes for them in the first week. Such lofty promises. But they’ve consistently let me down on an actual weekly basis.
It’s incredible really.
(I’ve now read the article) Ah ok it’s an actual activist group not just a blanket law applied to everyone….
Still…
It has been red tory v. blue tory since Blair took leadership in '93/'94.
It is more of less the same as the US (where it was red v blue republicans for a few decades and is now Republicans calling themselves 'Democrats' v. Christian Nationalist Fascists).
It is the natural continuation of Reaganite/Thatcherite neo-liberal capitalist ideology.
The outcome for the UK will be a lurch right as the poor vote for parties (Reform) who have used the immigration (that has caused serious legitimate problems for poor communities that simply can't afford to support the huge number of asylum seekers that have been dumped upon them) and other cultural issues of various legitimacy (imvho) that poor people have been coerced into finding important, as wedge issues.
Edit - obviously this lurch to the right is the opposite of what should happen but here we go. It is what fossil-fuel powered capitalists prefer to socialism and an egalitarian society any day.
Yes I foresaw Reforms rise during the election and discussed at length how it’s highly likely they will win the next one.
It’s incredible how they’re able to pull the wool over everyone’s eyes. There’s a flag on someone’s fence round the corner from me. A giant union flag with a reform banner underneath saying make Britain great again or something to that effect. A play on the words of Great Britain.
I feel like I need to deface it but like how a teacher would mark wrong work. They will not do anything of the sort. They’re liars, charlatans and grifters pretending to be about the people.
They will reform government alright, but not in the way the people would want or need.
I grew up in the 90s and to me everything was truly great until 2012. And then Nick Clegg personally fucked me over with university fees, and that’s when I realised the current political landscape isn’t for us. It’s just for them.
Perfectly described. I am so ashamed that my vote gave us this. I did not expect greatness, just not Tory evil. How wrong I was.
The Tories would have done the exact same thing, so we're not in any worse situation than we would have been.
We're also losing our freedom of speech in America, so we Americans can sympathize a bit.
You've actually lost your citizenship for that Thoughtcrime. Have fun in El Salvador. -people who will only stop when met with violent force
They just passed an “assault weapons ban” in my stare that has super low gun violence rates, and bans anything with a magazine, picatinny rails, forward grips, just ridiculous shit. Only 10 Republicans (the party pretending to be all for gun rights) voted against it which shows this is a concerted effort to disarm leftists and prevent us from arming ourselves while fascism breaks out in the usa and the two largest growing groups of gun owners are currently LGBTQ people and women of color. So yeah let’s concentrate weapons in the hands of police who are involved in every 1 Of twenty firearm homicides. As well as rich people and their paid mercenaries (thugs) it’s a great time to be an American
So, if they shut down and a new org called "Palestine Initiative" that happens to be coincidentally led by the same folks... all good?
If you’re serious, no, not all good. By UK law any organization led by the same people will automatically be labeled a terrorist organization.
A new activist group has popped up and called itself Yvette Cooper. Amazing stuff
In 6 hours it will be illegal to be named "Yvette Cooper" in the UK, with a sentence of up to 14 years in prison.
Probably not, since that's the name of the awful UK Home Secretary who nominated Palestine Action to be designation as a terrorist group in the first place..
Make signs that say "I support ________ ______" and let the media fill in the blanks for you.
Death to Pissrael!!!
It may also be illegal to refuse to give over passwords for your devices. For trivial stuff this doesn't apply but a terrorist group it likely does.
So remember to practice good data security.
15 minutes to go! If you're gonna say it, be quick!
