when will be your last time to vote for the "lesser of two evils"?

Uh, never? As an American I can easily recognize that we live in a 2-party political system in which you have 3 real options:

• Vote for the Democrats
• Vote for the Republicans
• Don't vote / Waste your vote

American politics is a game of tug-of-war. You can spend as much time as you want lamenting that the rope isn't exactly where you want it to be right now. But the fact is that one party is pulling the rope to the left and the other party is pulling it to the right. If you want the rope to move right you better join the people on the right, and if you want the rope to move to the left you better join the people on the left. And more to the point, if for whatever reason you don't want to pull (maybe because it seems futile or maybe because you just don't like the people on your team) then where can you expect it to move other than away from where you want it to be?

There is no politician on Earth who perfectly represents my politics, ideals or philosophy. If I wanted someone who perfectly represented exactly what I want I would get politically active and run for office myself. In lieu of that, what else can I hope for but to vote for the people who happen to be pulling in my direction, or at the very least pulling back against the mob of right-wing fascist criminals.

I don't think Biden is perfect, but he's certainly not evil. What's more, I know exactly what we're up against when it comes to Trump and the Republicans (who at best are spineless impotent political cowards, and at worst are fascist activists who want to strip people of rights, further rob the working class, deny climate change in the name of profit, destroy what little democracy we have, and weaponize the government against political enemies).

I've said this before and I'll say it again for all takers, name any politician who you think would be making more progress on important issues (healthcare, climate, education, transportation, lgbtq rights, women's rights, the economy, etc.) than Biden right now and I'll give you at least 3 reasons why they wouldn't. (Hint: the House, the Senate, the courts, state legislatures, inflation, unstable geopolitics, post-pandemic economic change, etc.) Bernie or Warren could be sitting in the Oval Office today, and we still wouldn't have universal healthcare (because of Congress), we still wouldn't have been able to wipe out student debt (because of the courts), we still would have to deal with wars and terrorism overseas (because of aggression from countries like Russia and Iran), and we still would be feeling the effects of inflation (because of decades of low interest rates coupled with pandemic supply chain fuckery).

So yeah, I'm not gonna stop voting for the better candidate of the two, because what the fuck else would any reasonable person do? Pull the rope towards where you want it to go. It's not hard.

I really feel sorry for people in the USA.

The worst thing that happened to your country since WW2 was fighting and winning the cold war. The outright rejection of anything even slightly left of centre as communism!!! has destroyed your democracy.

Add in non compulsory voting and I have no idea how you change it.

when the greater evil doesn't want me dead just for existing and isn't trying to destroy democracy

Never. Just vote. Be a grain of sand on the scales that keeps things from going to absolute shit. It costs you almost nothing, just a tiny amount of time.

It's ok, you can stop voting, actually everyone should stop voting, that way there will be no "lesser of two evils", it will just be the WORST evil taking over.
And you won't even be allowed to have the free speech rights to get on the internet and bitch about it, because that's how dictatorships in fascist countries work.
Maybe if Americans knew how good other countries have it, they might stand up and fight for a better nation and DEMAND changes in the laws that govern our elected officials, instead of constantly voting for idiots whose only agenda after getting elected is to destroy America and make it a fucked up theocracy.
You get the country you participate in.
[steps off soap box, turns off spotlight and leaves the building]

Regardless of my enthusiasm, I'll continue voting forever to pick up the slack for stupid people who think that anything on the ballot is anywhere close to as harmful as what the modern Republican party has become.

If you choose not to vote, you're only helping the greater of two evils.

I vote third party every time. I don't care if they're more likely to lose, the whole point of a democracy is that we vote honestly and that every voice actually serves as a voice which goes against the herd mentality. So I've never voted for the "lesser of two evils", I've been voting for actual good people every time because they friggin' earned it, not the people who have leveraged into victory based on the fact they have victory in the first place.

Better question for the "lesser of two evils" crowd: What's the endgame here? In my experience, the strategy is to try to hold together enough of a Democratic voting bloc by browbeating and berating leftists to keep the greater evil out of office, and the result is that politics has marched steadily to the right, Now we're teetering on the edge of fascism, with a Democratic President supporting genocide in another country and breaking strikes like he was ol' Ronnie. We can't go on like this. It can't work forever. Eventually, the threat of a fascist getting into office will be a reality; they only have to win once, and we have to win every time. It could very well be 2024 that they do it.

At what point do we attempt something better? As commentators like Thomas Pikkety have written, there are important issues that transcend the traditional left-right spectrum, that could peel away a lot of working-class voters who feel abandoned by the neo-liberal policies of the Democratic Party.

Do we just keep voting for the lesser evil in the hopes that we can do it long enough for some unforeseen, future political shift to just sort of happen before the lesser evil is also a fascist?

You're probably gonna continue reading doomer posts on the internet, getting grey hairs and high blood pressure

But the one chance you can do something to change things

You just won't?

Not voting is voting for the greater of 2 evils.

Once ranked choice voting becomes the standard.

Never. That is a position for the naive.

Until it actually boils over or we get rid of first past the post (and you'll need MASSIVE protests to do the latter.)

Fuck accelerationists. They're either dumbfucks who think their Apocalypse Badass Man fantasies will come true (and contrary to popular belief this person absolutely exists on the left,) or yuppies who know they have an easy out in the form of either a work visa in somewhere like Canada or leeching from a developing country working remotely and not contributing to where they live at all (and so many of these yuppies are self-proclaimed collectivists.) The rest of us are getting out of here in a casket or a refugee boat if it boils over. So how about we take at least a modicum of effort to take care of our society. Voting is the bare minimum.

2016 was my year, and that election pretty much slapped me in the face for doing so.

Until the fascist part stops being fascists, I feel morally obligated to vote for the same party for the continued benefit (and rights) of the LGBT+ members of my family.

The choice is pretty clear cut. Either vote Democrat or help out a convicted rapist/fraudster who also happens to be a Nazi.

In the primaries, I tend to vote for the person I want to see in office. In the general election, I tend to vote against the person I don't want in office.

I'm saying "tend to" because sometimes I engage in strategic voting. I run through all the poll numbers I can find before the election. If there's any chance that my preferred "person who has a realistic chance of getting into office" might lose my district/state, then I'll vote for my preferred person.

But if there's no realistic chance that they'll lose my state - like, say I was a Democrat in California, then my vote for the president essentially doesn't matter. I mean, if Biden(Clinton/Obama/whoever) lost California, then there's realistically no way they'd have enough Electoral College votes to become president. So I can vote for whoever I want to for president - and I do.

Sometimes I do it for the money. The FEC has a thing where if a party/candidate gets 5% of the vote, they become eligible for federal matching funds the next election. Realistically, only the Democrats and Republicans benefit at the moment, but I'd like to see the pool expand so sometimes I vote in hopes that a group or person will qualify for matching funds.

And sometimes I do it to send a message. The parties spend a lot of money collecting and parsing data. So say I'm that Californian Democrat voting in 2020, where my vote will make absolutely no difference in who gets elected president, because California (as a voting bloc) is very Democratic. Since in that particular case, it doesn't make a difference in who I vote for for president, I can use my vote to send a pointed message to the Democrats: Hey, look, even in the general election, I voted for (and sometimes wrote in) this other candidate who is very into worker's rights and the environment. These are issues that are important to me, and you should keep that in mind when you're deciding policy.

Again, I don't do that sort of thing when there's even a chance my vote will make a difference. But if my vote isn't going to make a difference, then I'll try to make it count in some other way. I just wish all the people who refuse to vote because "my vote will never make a difference" would also go and vote. Maybe we'd actually get a semi-viable third party, or more influence over party platforms.

When a third party candidate isn’t some kind of batshit crazy, actually exercises greater ethics, and has a chance in hell of winning.

And “last time” is pretty optimistic.

It always has been, and always will be, voting for the lesser evil. That's because of the voting system. Single vote, winner take all. Push for ranked choice or some other vote system. Then we can learn if it's turtles (evil) all the way down.

It was 2004.

Voting the lesser evil is a downward spiral of evil. If no candidates can meet the minimum standard, abstain on that race and fill out the rest of the ballot. It sucks, but it sucks a lot less than enabling whichever monster can be slightly less monstrous for the ten months before the election.

Given the opportunity to vote in its current form, I'll keep voting no matter how evil the lesser of two evils is. By definition it's better than the alternative

Probably the last time I voted. American democracy is a fucking scam

Federally, ship has already sailed. I'll still vote for the lesser evil on local matters, as I like school funding

I couldn't do it again after 99% Hitler broke his promise to be 1% less Hitler.

That would be 12 years ago! I didn't see any acceptable future for me in North America, and immigrated to Vietnam. I integrated reasonably well, and this is my culture now. You could say my last vote was with my feet, labor, and wallet :D

I don't hate the West or anything, in fact I wish you all the best! However I am fully invested in working towards the success of my new country and this part of the world in general.

We have preferential voting here, so I stick the lesser of two evils in front of the evil party but behind the people I actually want in power.

i dont vote. somewhere along the line some dumbass thought it would be a really good idea to pull jury nominees from the voter pool. jury duty is a complete waste of my time, it pays absolute dogshit, and I've never really had much trust in the justice system to begin with - so I am not registered to vote in the state I live in. the week before I plan on leaving for greener pastures, I will register to vote.

Before I choosing not to vote, I would vote for someone I think deserves the vote most even if the chances of them winning are practically 0.

Everyone hates the candidates and our voting system and they will vehemently defend supporting both.

I plan to vote, so I will be voting for the lesser of two evils. From now until I die. That's what voting is.

I will always vote (but i'm in europe)

Basically when I don't feel like there are plans for immediate sweeping terrible decisions that will take decades to undo

It should have been in the 80's. If those lesser evil folk bit the bullet and refused to vote for whatever shitty candidate they had at that point them maybe the Democratic party wouldn't feel so comfortable shoveling Biden down our throats. It is 100% the fault of past Democratic party voters that we're in this situation and it could have been avoided.

In a purely 4-year cycle, it is better to vote for a Dem because they'll be slightly better. But since we repeated that 10x already, the Dem has gotten to be so horrific that it isn't worth it anymore. It's like trying to decide how much grain to use to feed a village and how much to plant for the next season. In the short term, it's better to feed the people and reduce the amount planted next year. But we did that so much that now there's no more food.

Boomers fucked Millennials and Gen Z with climate change. Gen X and Millennials fucked over Gen Z over with lesser evil voting.

2020 was the last time. I'm abstaining until either party can put out a candidate who will actually help me or the American "experiment" reaches its natural conclusion. I really don't care anymore.

I already left the country and vote absentee for the worse candidate because you all deserve it.

(Jk, I don't vote.)

Two cycles ago. Motherfuck Amerika, motherfuck the electors putting their thumbs on the scales to invalidate millions of votes nationwide, and motherfuck everyone who justifies propping it up too. I'm not cosiging genocidal colonizers; if that means the country falls, then the country deserved it. Die nameless.

I dunno, pretty much my entire life it's been choosing between degrees of evil in one party and degrees of capitalist greed sucking from another. None of the alternative parties have fielded a candidate I could support either, but that's not the point

The point is that there aren't two evil parties. There's one of those, and one other party that's full of shit, but not evil. Then there's a bunch that are just useless because we have a first past the post system. Not that any of them are exactly bastions of goodness, even the ones that are closer to my views. They're all fucking politicians. Never fully trust anyone that wants that kind of power and authority.

But, let's be clear here. There's only one party that literally courts neo-nazi votes and works to undo not only legal rights, but human rights.

I'll keep voting for the less evil option until I'm physically unable to vote.

The blessing of having MMP is .. you don't have to vote for a lesser evil! You can actually vote for a good option!

I did! And they didn't get in because Money! It's fucking awesome!

During the Iraq War, Kurt Vonnegut was asked about the anti-war protests.. His response was that, during Vietnam, he was part of anti-war protests firing on all cylinders and laser-focused and going to stop that war. He said it was ultimately about as effective as climbing to the top of a ladder and tossing a pie on the ground. This time will be no different.

So I don't know what you're hoping to gain. The 'Ima take my ball and go home' approach didn't work out so well in 2016. Threatening not to vote isn't going to phase anyone in a country where more than half the population doesn't vote anyway. Maybe instead of threats you should work with other people trying to help the people you want elected get elected.

You guys were voting based on "lesser of two evils" and not based on who you actually like?

I've always just voted for the guy I like best. I never felt that voting tactically was truthful.

If everyone was like me we'd have a nicer political climate, I think.

I'll keep doing that so you can feel free to join me in doing that until we reach the critical mass point.

The chances of your vote being the one to change the outcome of a large election are extremely small, so it doesn't really matter that much what you do with your ballot. However, if you have the means to influence other people's votes, that might count for something. Therefore, I think it's good to discourage people from voting for the apparent lesser of two evils. If you vote, try to vote as best as you can for your class interests. (Chances are that you belong to the working class.) Don't feel bad about abstaining if the candidates to choose from represent class interests that are counter to yours to the extent that you can barely tell them apart.

In 2020 I voted 3rd party. No illusion of them winning I just wanted to vote in a way that could help demonstrate to the 2 parties that there's a important segment of Americans that they're overlooking.

If a third party gets enough of a percentile where they could decide if Reps or Dems win we might see them adapt to have policies that cater closer to the desires of that third party.

But what's more important is your local elections. The president is much less important in your life than your governor or mayor is.

imagine how good the world would be if America imported the Australian style Westmister system.

As long as it takes until the youth voting rate matches that of the elderly and we get good options that actually change anything...

But that would rely on us getting out and voting instead of bitching online so I don't have much hope.

Three elections ago.

When the greater of two evils who might win if I don't isn't a raging narcissistic fascist.

I’m with you penguin. I’ll vote for neoliberalism to fend off fascism, but having to vote for genocide in another country to fend off fascism in America is a bitter pill. Biden has year to make amends though, he may turn it around. But he lost a lot of voters over Gaza.