12 mo. ago • 98%

California jogger charged over killing of homeless man blocking sidewalk

www.theguardian.com California jogger charged over killing of homeless man blocking sidewalk

Craig Sumner Elliott, 68, allegedly shot Antonio Garcia Avalos, 40, in incident in Orange county

A California jogger was charged this week in the killing of a homeless man who was blocking the sidewalk.

Craig Sumner Elliott, 68, was jogging with his two dogs and pushing a cart on 28 September when he came across Antonio Garcia Avalos, 40, who was sleeping in the middle of the sidewalk, prosecutors in Orange county, California, said.

Elliott allegedly tried to wake Avalos by nudging him with the pushcart, whereupon Avalos started yelling at Elliott to leave him alone.

Elliott, who allegedly filmed their encounter, then brought a handgun out of his cart, prosecutors charged, adding that when Avalos stood and threw a shoe at Elliott, he ducked and responded by shooting Avalos three times.

Avalos subsequently died from his injuries. Elliott, who does have an active concealed carry permit issued by the local sheriff’s office, was arrested on 17 November in the incident.

99 comments

Someone who goes jogging with a concealed gun is just looking for a reason to murder someone. This guy found one.

151
- In my neighborhood there is a old guy who takes his little granddaughter for walks while open carrying a gun. We live in a very safe suburban area. Some people are fucking nuts and are totally looking for a fight.
  
  85
  
  What you don’t realize is he’s open carrying to scare the granddaughter straight, she’s concealed carrying and the only thing stopping her from killing you all is grandpa.
  
  50
  
  My neighbor is strapped when he mows the fucking lawn. This is in a neighborhood where zero violent crime has taken place in the five years I've lived there.
  
  19
- Eh, hiking and jogging are actually a really good reason to CCW, especially if you live in a remote area. You also have to think about mountain lions and bears where I am, though. We've also had multiple trail abductions, 2 of which resulted in laws being passed for abduction here.
  
  That being said, I have been sickened by the number of times I've heard jokes like: "This'll give the mailman a bad time", or, "I hope they fuck around and find out." I completely agree, a lot of gun owners WANT to shoot someone.
  
  16
  
  He had two dogs with him. Highly doubt he's getting mugged or attacked by mountain lions.
  
  6
  
  I feel ya. Even in a safe neighborhood, shit happens. I related a story in this thread, from just the other night, where a pit bull gave me a fright in my home. (Giant dog door for the pig, would not have kept him out. All went very well!)
  
  Same hood, I saw a post on nextdoor.com about our cross-street, warning that were a couple of pits that often get loose. Chased a pregnant woman down the street!
  
  LOL, I'm on the edge of town and a black bear cruised in a couple of years ago! I know, they're not typically dangerous, but "trapped" in my house might freak one out. Wasn't here, missed all the fun. :(
  
  And yes, some of these fuckers are sick in the head. I'm looking for any excuse not to draw, or even reveal, my pistol. Stories like this post make me ill.
  
  2
  
  Using any handgun, or probably most rifles, against a bear is just going to make it angry. Those fuckers are tanks. Use bear spray for bears.
  
  0
- That can't even be a comfortable way to jog!
  
  7
- Almost every time I've gone so far as to draw a weapon, or even came close, it involved an animal. The 4-legged sort. And I can count those times, including being close to drawing, on one hand. But still... (Maybe I drew once?)
  
  My small children are here for the week, guns in the safes, but I normally have my Colt .45 hidden on my desk.
  
  Couple of nights ago I heard a ruckus, opened the door, and a fucking pit bull was right there running around. I have a giant dog door, that dog could have run right in. And a bear did so one time!
  
  Grabbed the single-shot 12-gauge over the door sill, jammed one in there, went back on the porch. Fortunately, he was a happy, friendly puppy that got loose from a young family taking a walk. My relief cannot be overstated.
  
  "That your dog?"
  
  "Yes, so sorry!"
  
  "Oh thank god, no problem! No problem at all!"
  
  So no, I'm not walking the streets or woods unarmed. And no, we gun owners are not all murderous fucking nutcases.
  
  4
- 68 years old. He probably up until now had the acuity to restrain himself in such a situation. When you get older, barriers between emotional reactions, memory, and perception, start to blur. Everyone agreed that my great uncle never hurt anyone least if all his wife of 50 years a d was known to be a calm dude, until the one day when he chased my great aunt around the house with a knife and then ran off into the forest. If he'd had a gun maybe it would have been one of the many handgun murder-suicides that happen every day. It was just a knife though, so on addition to cooking dinner or cutting a cake, she was able to outrun it.
  
  All humans will go through this, none of them should just have whatever guns without limitations or ongoing proof of sentience.
  
  3
- In the past few years I've had a homeless fellow break into our home pushing my wife down, had one scream at my wife and push my kid, had one follow my kid being abusive, had a crazy with a broken bottle make stabbing motions towards everyone that passes while giggling. We've made do with pepper spray and in my case fists but I can understand a 68 year old dude carrying a gun since he probably can't physically protect himself. His mistake was believing that having a backup plan made it safe to escalate. This made escalation vastly more likely.
  
  3
  
  Doesn't sound like any of those stories involve a sleeping homeless man on public property though.
  
  19
  
  /r/thathappened
  
  4
  
  In the past few years I’ve had a homeless fellow break into our home pushing my wife down, had one scream at my wife and push my kid, had one follow my kid being abusive, had a crazy with a broken bottle make stabbing motions towards everyone that passes while giggling.
  
  Maybe it's time to take your meds?
  
  3
  
  Oh but those poor unhoused people! We should do nothing to help them but also not bother them when they take up public shared spaces.
  
  -16
- Everyone who owns a gun are looking to murder someone. They're just looking for the excuse like someone backing out of their driveway, a door to door salesman knocking on their door, and a bunch of kids playing hide and seek in their neighborhood.
  
  3
- If you're of the opinion that there's any credible argument for personal firearm ownership for self defense at all (perhaps you don't, I don't know you) then jogging alone in the city would seem like one of the better times to carry...
  
  -2
  
  remind me, how do responsible gun owners store firearms again? Is it loaded, armed, and loose in a cart in public?
  
  4
  
  He had two dogs with him. That's generally enough of anl deterrent all by itself.
  
  2
  
  I disagree. I lived in a pretty high-crime part of Brooklyn for 26 years, and at no time did I feel the need to carry a gun to feel safe walking around.
  
  1
alright time to go for a jog! got my running shoes, sunglasses, headphones, whoops, can't forget the gun!

72
- Or the cart, apparently. Who jogs with two dogs and a cart?
  
  19
- Like this?
  
  2
I've seen countless americans claiming that it's perfectly justified to drive over people if they get in the way of your car, so this is pretty on-brand.

59
- That's a fact of life here in Utah. Polls have shown most Utahns believe they are justified hitting or killing someone with their car, if that person is in the road (even in a crosswalk) and happens to impede their car. They truly believe this. Of course page one of our driving handbooks states "no matter the situation, pedestrians always have right of way over oncoming cars." This should be obvious to even the lowest grade moron, but I guess that explains why it's not obvious to Utahns - they get most of their information from supermarket tabloids and Fox news.
  
  30
  
  All them damn Mormons I tell ya.
  
  3
Man is almost 70 and still jogging and shooting homeless people while filming it! Must have been a wild life.

42
- He had two dogs and was pushing a cart that carried his gun...
  
  Whatever he was doing, it wasn't jogging.
  
  And him taking his phone out to record himself kicking the other man and yelling at him first, was likely only because he was hoping to antagonize a homeless person so he could "defend himself".
  
  He's got to be one of those idiots who believe the "stand your ground" bullshit.
  
  You can't start kicking a sleeping man and then claim you're a victim, but he's gonna try
  
  74
  
  That was my first thought, reading the article. There's no way he was just jogging. What kind of jogger takes a cart with them? I've never seen something like that, and I see a lot of joggers in my area.
  
  17
  
  Absolutely. This is one of the big problems with so many people carrying guns. There are many shitty people looking for a reason to use them.
  
  9
  
  He allegedly nudged the guy illegally blocking the sidewalk who responded by trying to assault an old man. Do you have a copy of the video I could not find one.
  
  -14
  
  But god forbid we should praise police for their response in arresting this homicidal jerk. Obviously police caused this, somehow. And are just agents of evil. Humans should be allowed to kill and rape and molest other humans with impunity. Because otherwise, some asswipe on social media might accuse you of being (GASP!!!!!) a "bootlicker!"
  
  -41
What a fucking coward, you threw a shoe at me? Time to die!

dehumanization is absolutely disgusting, and it's a core part of this capitalist hellscape

40
- I wonder if the shooter isn't slipping into dementia or the like. One clearly has to be suffering some sort of mental illness to lose their shit like this.
  
  I'm 52, so this is a concern for me. First hint that I'm losing it? My wife will be instructed to change the safe codes and hide the backup keys. Gets worse? Guns will all have to go.
  
  5
  
  Why wait? Are they that important to you that you're willing to risk becoming another sad news story? How are you so sure your wife is trustworthy?
  
  If you're worried about it maybe you should act on it.
  
  2
  
  Absolutely, right there with you.
  
  I’m also gun owner and I feel that just like cars should have (but don’t), we need some sort of competency check-in system after a certain age. With all due respect of course, but as people age they become a danger to themselves and those around them.
  
  1
- Remember when the Iraqi threw the show at former president Bush and he didn’t do anything to the Iraqis?
  
  2
- Lol I love how this is being turned into an attack on capitalism.
  
  -2
This wouldn't have happened if only the homeless man had a gun! We need to educate the homeless to carry weapons! More guns is the answer!

37
Before anyone says he deserved it for throwing a shoe...

Someone did that to George W. Bush, WHILE HE WAS PRESIDENT, and he was simply arrested.

32
- I believe they threw both shoes even!
  
  10
- That shoe was a weapon of mass destruction
  
  6
- And this happened in Iraq.
  
  6
- ... is anyone arguing that it was justified?
  
  3
  
  No, which is why they said "before". Which is probably fair, cos some gronk is gonna say something heinous along those lines. It's 2023, welcome to hell.
  
  8
This could have been avoided if there was a Good Jogger With A Gun

30
- I'm starting a charity... "Arm the Homeless". We can set up arming stations for the unhoused, providing assault rifles and even free ammo for those who run low.
  
  17
- Yeah really! Such a thing is a complete oxymoron. Just like the people who think they're good for carrying concealed weapons. It's just a billion accidents looking for excuses to happen.
  
  -2
Well trash has been removed from the sidewalk.

Unfortunate that an innocent homeless man had to die though.

30
- They’re both trash, just different types.
  
  -34
  
  You can imagine my shock when I took a quick glance at your profile and saw you were a Republican.
  
  3
  
  🙄
  
  0
Supposed "good guy with a gun" led to a death that wouldn't have happened if there were stricter gun control.

28
- Arm the homeless!
  
  9
Clearly he needed to use deadly force to protect himself from that (checks post again) rogue shoe...

23
- Maybe it was an assault style shoe
  
  9
  
  I've heard it was a semi-automatic shoe with bump stock.
  
  6
  
  You mean with big points on the end like The Iron Sheik used to wear in pro wrestling?
  
  3
- He should have done like W and dodged the shoe. Shit George dodged twice and didn’t shoot anyone. He left the shootings to Dick Cheney.
  
  8
Wants a guy laying on the sidewalk to move. Naturally, he kills him so he can't move out of the way. Logical.

20
Exactly how do you 'nudge' someone with a cart? Is talking to them loudly or reaching down and touching a shoulder really that impossible? (god forbid you choose to go around them, the inconvenience!)

18
- You don't, you hit them with a cart.
  
  3
Apparently, it was the old man who threw the shoe, not the homeless man

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_1mzHyXstI

16
Glad he is charged. It is what he deserves.

9
- Only took 50 days to arrest him. Expedited.
  
  9
This "well-regulated militia" was legally carrying a firearm. Biden's deep state is charging him anyway!

--Conservatives, probably

7
Felony firearm enhancement? Wonder what that was.

3
Reminds me of the criminal who murdered Markeis McGlockton and almost got away with it due to Slaughter Young Gentlemen laws. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Markeis_McGlockton SYG laws are basically "get out of jail free" cards for murderers. The police let McGlockton's murderer walk free because of SYG laws. It wasn't until public backlash that the police arrested and charged McGlockton's murderer. California does not have SYG laws.

One notable thing here is Avalos was murdered 9/28 but not arrested until 11/17, over a month after the murder. After McGlockton's murder on 7/19, the county sheriff refused to arrest the murderer but once the investigation was handed over to the state on 8/1, the murderer would be arrested only 2 weeks later on 8/13. Orange County appears to have dragged its feet arresting this murderer, in comparison.

1
- Slaughter Young Gentlemen
  
  never heard it referred to as that but yeah, Stand Your Ground laws are a right wing dog whistle for open season on whoever they can attack.
  
  5
Welcome to Murkia.

1
Well good for him. I guess is all I'm allowed to say, because if I say that it's good that police arrested this bastard I'm labelled a liberal bootlicker. I guess I'm all for people killing homeless and doing whatever they want, then. In fact, I really encourage it - let's show the police they can't police us around or try to make us behave like decent human beings instead of sick animals.

-49
- ...huh?
  
  14
  
  I think he had a stroke. I saw him in another thread saying some stupid shit too.
  
  6
- You're a strange troll indeed
  
  9
- …are you ok?
  
  5

You've viewed 99 comments.