Bro left freedom on read
[a creepy orange character smiles absent mindedly]
"Actually the guns exist to defend yourself against a tyrannical government" mfers when I ask them to actually defend us against the actual tyrannical government
Tyranny's only something to fight when you're not on the same side as the tyrant.
If I was going to stand by the 2nd amendment, this would be why. The problem is that weapons are too advanced now. Some dude’s AR-15 is not going to stop a tank.
The only thing the 2nd amendment does now is let people hunt and murder children at school.
The 2A crowd opposed to the current regime isn't declaring war for the same reasons the people bold enough to cry out loud "please, now is the time to shoot these people" don't find the stones to do it themselves. Nobody wants to be the first. Nobody wants to risk winding up in a sting trying to recruit/join others. Nobody wants to go it alone and end up a crazed, lone gunman that maybe clips one head off the hydra before their own brains are splattered by a sniper team and their family is left with a closed casket and the shame of whatever propaganda gets cooked up to explain their actions. "He was a bad dude. A real bad guy. It has been said he had terabytes of transvestite furotica and a pet cat named Karl. He once took a picture of a rainbow. A disgusting man." Then, two weeks and two fresh heads later, the media cycle has moved on and the world is just a little worse than before.
It's not worth it if they're still comfortable. It's not even worth it if there's a sliver of hope to continue eking out a tolerably miserable existence - "at least I'm not dead." They'll carry on until there's a knock at their door then either go out in a hail of gunfire or hand over their arms and freedom because "False, indefinite imprisonment? At least I'm not dead."
That was mostly directed at OP, who is welcome to show us how it's done. To your own point - Years ago, and probably still, "tanks and drones" was a routine troll over on /k/ and the answer to it is always "Asymmetric Warfare." You don't go toe-to-toe and fist fight the wrecking ball swinging toward you. You blast the tracks off the crane. You hydrolock the engine. You make people too scared to sit in the operator's seat. Guerilla tactics, sabotage, etc.
You also don't police with military drones. You surveil and exact precision strikes. The second the American military launches missiles at Americans in America, we'll have that civil war that nobody with a brain actually wants. In our current political climate I genuinely believe that would kick things off. Point of no return, war were declared, hope you stockpiled canned goods and water because the supply chain is getting disrupted.
As for tanks, you can ruin the streets with them to stick them on the corners but it'll only be a show of force - an intimidation tactic. Tanks are rolling shields for infantry and other equipment, with a few bullet hoses and a big gun to blast encampments and other tanks. They also need those same foot soldiers, willing to kill their fellow citizens, to defend them from folks flinging molotovs or dropping DIY explosives down the barrel.
If you've got a water jug of pre-1982 pennies, that you haven't been bothered turning into pizza and beer or selling for the slightly higher scrap value, and you never stared at it and thought "I could smelt these down into cones because... I just really like the shape of cones," you're not trying hard enough to break the illusion that you're already defeated.
Jesus fucking Christ, I want to print posters of this comment. Made a thousand related posts, but I bow to you OP. Never said it myself, or seen it said, so well or so completely. How could I have anything to add?!
Anyway, went out to our crappy little camp in the swamp and got some trigger time today. Silly, but I got my .177 pellet rifle dialed in. Only tested a few times, but was stunned to see tiny sabot rounds do more damage to a beer can full of water than regular pellets. Who knew? Weird.
Also found that I've got my light on the wrong side of my Little Badger .22, strap blocks it. Rookie mistake, but that's why we test!
Bummer, but my Colt Government Model malfunctioned for the first time, after probably 500 rounds. Weird, malformed, shell casing really threw it off, took a few minutes to figure it out. LOL, was scared I had somehow managed to break a Colt 1911! That's what I get for using remannned ammo. 🤷🏻
This is the most ignorant shit. The AR-15 doesn't stop a tank. It's not supposed to stop a tank. When people are armed and everywhere, they can attack logistics everywhere. They can cut off fuel supply to that tank. They can prevent the crew from exciting that tank. They can take out the infantry that is supporting that tank and then plant a bomb on that blind-ass rolling bunker. Small arms are still enormously important in warfare and all you're proving is that you know absolutely nothing about warfare.
You’re definitely not wrong. I’ll be the first to admit I don’t know about warfare. Hopefully I never have to truly find out.
I just mean government has drones and tanks and other super firepower that a normal citizen doesn’t have, but when the 2nd amendment was written, we were on a bit more of even footing.
Because of that, I would rather have more bans and restrictions to prevent American gun violence.
If we were still in more even footing, I would be much more hesitant to place restrictions.
Yeah these dumb fucks are the same people who were saying "there's no way we can lose to a bunch of peasants in black pajamas" in the 1960s. Or who were saying the regime couldn't lose in România in the early 90s.
Do you think the army that sends the tank does not kow how to create and defend a defend a supply line? Or that a single tank "guarded" by a few infanterists will come alone to be taken out by a bunch of rednecks with their toy guns? And good luck with planting your bomb on that " blind-ass rolling bunker". That was not that easy even in WWII. Nobody in their right mind will try that with a charge that actually might pierce a tank and your home made fire cracker is much more likely to blow you to bits than anything else. You won't even come close enough to a tank to even think about attaching anything to it, anyway. They're not meant to stand around as targets for high-school ninjas, they move. That's their one and only purpose - to keep the front line moving and to avoid frozen lines like in WWI. And. believe me, if a couple of tanks are moving somewhere near to you, you'll run for your life,. Not even an antitank missile will be of any use to you on short distance,
This is exactly what HAMAS is doing in Palestine against the IOF.
You're right. Small arms still have a role to play, even if it doesn't seem like it at first glance.
Some dude’s AR-15 is not going to stop a tank.
You don't use the AR-15 on the tank. You use it on the people involved in the logistics chain. If that tank doesn't have a driver, mechanics, fuel, spare parts, etc then the tank is useless. Insurgencies in far away lands didn't have this option but an insurgency at home certainly would.
Ask the US military how effective the tanks were in Afghanistan, Iraq, and Vietnam.
You know, the last three wars the US has been in and totally not lost.
As someone who would have agreed with you this time last year, my new AR-15 may not stop a tank, but it can slow down the anonymous gestapo if they try to abduct my neighbors and loved ones.
Also, like, its really hard to fight insurgencies, even when they're going up against superior firepower.
2nd amendment people thinking they have a chance against the US army. Maybe update the law so it is legal to own nuclear weapons so you can keep your government in check.
Tell that to the Taliban.
I would suggest you read this comment:
https://old.lemmy.world/comment/19432981
No one thinks we're taking the military head on. That's a childish notion of how violence vs. a superior foe works. I might point to to the entire modern history of Afghanistan or US and French involvement in Vietnam.
Stay unarmed of that's your ethos, always said I respect that take. But for me and my house, we serve John Browning. Or Eugene Stoner. Wife's a fan of her pink Bursa Thunder. I haven't got the hang of double/single action pistols, but damn that thing is a dreamy weapon.
You do you, but don't put fucking words in my mouth.
Lol, they are with the Army not against them.
Arm the unions with missiles you say?
I think their point is you have the guns too to protect yourself …
Either way It’s a flawed logic because tyrannical government can be a matter of perspective when it comes to defending one’s self.
Make no mistake the 2nd amendment people will be defending ICE and you will be staring down the barrel of their rifle if you fight back.
At this point the 2nd amendment is just a marketing tactic to convince more people to buy guns and they are currently leaning hard on groups who have not traditionally armed themselves.
After they are done arming both sides we can commit to civil war and they can finally purge the government of all dissenters. This is all part of their plan. So go buy more guns!
Odds are you would be staring down the barrel either way. You can die kneeling or fighting back. The choice is yours, but you can still end up dead either way.
Be the change you want to see.
the thing is that according to their view, what's currently happening isn't a "tyrannical government" but something they needed or something.
Countries with armed citizens have more draconian and tyrannical states than those without.
You sure? Among developed countries I don't see such a trend, and without that caveat Iraq has the same guy ownership rate as Germany. I get that you're talking about the US, but before Trump "draconian and authoritarian" isn't at all how I'd describe American laws.
Not tryna get domed by secret service.
I think most progressive gun owners I know are on crazy high alert worried mode and wondering about the next few years are going to go. I know spikes and shit will happen but political assassination is pretty prevalent these days. States are starting to sidestep the federal government.
I am armed every time I'm outside my front door, never acted like this in my life and I'm mad as hell it's come to this. I have a legal, brown, immigrant wife and I'm a loud-mouthed liberal, in a very red corner of Florida. Might say I got a dog in this fight.
And for the suburban white boys out there, you'll get it once it's too late.
It's virtue signalling. Every single accusation
Serious actually why leftists should've been gun owners and not pretending to stand on principle when they're actually afraid.
We, unfortunately, live in an equal parts armed and divided society. Ever expecting that the people who side with the tyrants on everything would use their guns to help you is so unbelievably naive.
If you don't own something now, you definitely should. The fed goons ain't gonna disarm themselves for your house specifically.
I bought guns when I was a conservative because I wanted to fight what I perceived as a tyrannical government.
I retain those same guns as a progressive because I fear the government has now become tyrannical and will need to fight it in my life time.
The crazy thing is that this lunacy has infected the left.
I guess that shit is just in the water here in the US. It's an article of faith that gun ownership as a prophylactic against State violence. Meanwhile, showing a cop your gun is a recognized form of suicide.
I guess that shit is just in the water here in the US.
The United States was founded with the help of private firearms and it's citizens have always distrusted and disliked their own Government. What you're talking about is literally baked into the fabric of our culture.
Meanwhile, showing a cop your gun is a recognized form of suicide.
Meh, it's all about where you are. I could wander around open carrying a firearm here in Wyoming and have little or no trouble. If I tried it in a liberal area of the country, for example Denver, I'd almost certainly have a problem.
It's all about the culture of the area.
Tell that to Charlie.
He was not part of the government was he?
A propongandist of a regime is definitely part of that government
Okay but yeah that was a dumb target to go for. Definitely supports the groyper theory
Airforce 2 picked up his body immediately after his assassination. So apparently he is posthumously?
I also felt like the "I'd travel back in time and kill Nazis" crowd suddenly became waaay smaller after a modern Nazi got shot.
One of the best responses to kirk's death said something like "This is like writing an obituary of Joseph Goebbels that goes 'Gobbels was a gifted marketer and father of six children'"
I saw this one 2 days ago:
His wife also did some postnatal abortion with his children in the last days of the Führer bunker. Pity the Goebbels.
nah, i think they're just relaxing a bit like "finally"
No, not them, they're alright. But suddenly a lot of people have become pacifists and are against violence. Suddenly killing the Nazi is bad and hurts the cause.