2y ago

'You can never become a Westerner:' China's top diplomat urges Japan and South Korea to align with Beijing and 'revitalize Asia' | CNN

edition.cnn.com 'You can never become a Westerner:' China's top diplomat urges Japan and South Korea to align with Beijing and 'revitalize Asia' | CNN

China’s top diplomat has urged Japan and South Korea to foster a sense of “strategic autonomy” from the West and cooperate with Beijing to “revitalize Asia,” amid rising tensions between China and the two neighboring American allies.

78 comments

It's much easier for an East Asian person to become integrated into a Western society than the other way around.
You can live in Japan/China/Korea for decades, be married and have children with a local, and speak the language fluently and people will still call you a foreigner to your face.
- Agreed, I work with dozens of western Chinese, japanese and koreans every day.
- You can be born in a western country as an East Asian and still also be called a foreigner and asked where are you really from
  
  Yes, you can.
  But it's not as prevalent.
- My son is 50/50 Thai / English.
  We live in Thailand and he is accepted as 100% Thai.
  I admit that I'll never be accepted as Thai but that comes with benefits as well as drawbacks.
  
  It's generally easier on the kids in Thailand, I think, because mixed race couples are more widely accepted there than in Japan/China/Korea.
  I did a few years teaching ESL in Seoul and out of hundred kids, there were just two siblings that were mixed race - Korean mom and American Dad.
  Even though these two kids looked basically Korean (except their hair was dark brown instead of black) and spoke fluent Korean, I was shocked that some of the other kids in the class referred to them as 외국인 (foreigners), the exact same word they used to refer to me as white man.
- It’s true that they’ll call you a “foreigner” to your face, but they don’t mean anything bad by it in most cases. It’s just a classification, understandable since these aren’t really “melting pot” nations. I’ve lived in all three places and never had anything but positive regard from people who see me as a foreigner. Even when I got arrested in Beijing, I was really impressed with how I was treated.
  
  I never said they necessarily mean anything bad by it, though.
  Regardless of whether your status as a foreigner is perceived as being positive or negative, you'll always be a foreigner.
- Whoops, double-posted.

This is the kind of shit Japan said about its Great East Asia Co Prosperity Sphere when it basically subjugated a lot of its neighbors prior to WWII... I hope history won't repeat itself in such a way.
- I came here to mention Japan's "Asia for Asians" campaign in the early 1900s. Glad to see I'm not the only history nerd commenting on this post!
- No. Japan embraced European racial ideology but still wanted its own empire. This was problematic for Japanese imperialists because Europeans considered them as lesser life forms, and reiterated this in the League of Nations. Thus, capitalist Japan has always had to have a contradictory view of race, wanting to be equal to Europeans (and superior to non-Europeans) while not being European.
  This racial view of the world is no longer so overt, but still exists. European leaders still consider themselves a white "garden" compared to the non-white "jungle". Who is considered European, Western, and/or white can be changed. Following the war in Ukraine, Russia has been described as Asian more frequently. For the collaborationist regimes in South Korea, Taiwan, and Japan, they are often grouped in as the "West," but because they are undeniably Asian (unlike Russia), they will never be completely accepted. Racists don't ask you for your nationality before they push you off a cliff - they just look at you. Japan & South Korea need to realize that they are Asian instead of begging white supremacists to be honorary whites.
  
  I'm from Europe, and no one here or in america considers Korea or Japan uncivilized or a "jungle". On the opposite, lots of weebs and kpop/kdrama fans all around.
  Most of the world has moved over the concept of race, and political ideologies are what now unite people. And Korea and Japan, being democracies, belong with "western" democracies more than China. China knows this, and they try to play on feelings about race and geopraphy

Kiiiiinda hard for South Korea to hear that with a straight face, considering China sided with NK pretty significantly in the Korean War and considers NK an ally (or at least definitely within their sphere of influence) to this day.
- lol yeah that too! Chinese provided the millions of troops to the North for the invasion didn't they. And are sustaining the North Korean regime economically to this day.
- The Americans in charge will cope and seethe, but they'll understand.
  
  I bet they're hoping that China doesn't remind anyone that the US purposely tanked the Japanese and Korean economies fairly recently.

Like they’ll ever become Chinese.
- Fun fact: Asian =/= Chinese
  
  whos gonna break the news to china

Very unconstructive to pose the world as westerners and not westerners.
Talk of joining "westerners" and everyone instead and not this polarization
Russia should be proof enough that humanity doesn't need rogue states

Yeah, East Asia will ally with Beijing when Beijing actually decides to see the rest of East Asia as equals and not just former tributary nations. (Believe me, I'm Chinese, this is unfortunately all too common a superiority complex that Chinese people have.)
It's not that they want to be Westerners, it's that they don't want to be bullied by the regional superpower, and the other world superpower supports them in resisting Beijing.

Petulant child picking up fights with every neighbor, claiming he owns everyone's toys and breakfast, behaving like the natural state of the world is to revolve around himself, sports a surprised Pikachu face when said neighbors decide to go to the movie together.

So China is accepting Japan into their midst and getting all buddy-buddy?
How very Nanking of them...
China will never ever consider Japan as an equal or viable partner. Breaking the bond between West and Japan? Sure, they are all about that but being buddies and accepted into China? Never ever happening.

My duality is much more to are you an reasonable person which can be openly self-critical but also are aware of authority bias, or do you join primitive and absurd dualities as this?
Standard kindergarten polarizarion from the Chinese leadership, nothing new I guess.

If China is Democratic and less invasive, then yes.
Edit: I don't know what CCP sympathisers are trying to prove by trolling. They have to prove themselves to Japan, South Korea, South East Asia not to some random Internet person 😂
- China is already a democratic and peaceful civilization.
  
  Holy shit
  It's neither of those things, at all.

Starting to smell fear from China. Maybe they are starting to realize they aren’t as great as they thought

This is quite rich for China to ask while constantly complaining about being victimized by Japan during WWII while not a peep has come out of them about the shaming they suffered during Opium wars when western nations effectively carved up China to spheres of influence. Not to mention the seizing of neighbor's islands and territories through force while proclaiming it as theirs because an insane Chinese monarch once sent out a bunch of rickety boats into the seas centuries ago. I suggest Chinese tidy up their over-all diplomatic messaging and strategy first.
- not a peep has come out of them about the shaming they suffered during Opium wars when western nations effectively carved up China to spheres of influence
  The century of humiliation is something that is mentioned by the Chinese government a lot, I'm not sure what you meant by this.
- Far from not a peep, China mention their "unequal treaties" and the "century if humiliation" a lot, it's a rallying cry and something they would definitely use to bolster the case they're making here. What did you mean by this?
- If you’re talking about Zheng He and his fleet, those boats were not rickety. It was an impressive fleet. That said, that doesn’t magically give their claims in the South China Sea any more credence than arguing the British still have a rightful claim over Ireland.
- while not a peep has come out of them about the shaming they suffered during Opium wars when western nations effectively carved up China to spheres of influence
  This is the underlying reason why they don't like or trust the west. It's pretty much their whole MO and why they think Japan and South Korea will rally with them.
- Are you saying China benefited from the Opium Wars?
  
  That would make about as much sense as criticising China for complaining about what Japan did to it in the past.
  Luckily westerners never talk about WWII and what the Nazis did. No films, no books, no memorials. It's like none of it ever happened. Good thing, too; imagine how embarrassed you'd be to try to work in good faith with people you've been at war with after spending years funding them.
  
  Oh good, the obligate Lemmy tankies are here.

https://shorturl.at/lvPZ0

If the USA liked Asia so much, Japan would be in NATO considering how much they've waggled their tails after being brutally nuked, twice.
- The U.S already has a defense treaty with Japan.
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Mutual_Cooperation_and_Security_between_the_United_States_and_Japan
  "Article 5 commits the United States to defend Japan if it is attacked by a third party. "
  Given your profile, yea your comment checks out.
  
  It isn't NATO, it doesn't have anywhere near the same impact.

The West is so fucked. No more Petro Dollar, not enough time for a working CDBC (I think?), its civilization has been forcefully separated into small individualized groups that are no longer capable of speaking to each other or feeling compassion for each other, capitalist vultures just waiting to profit off of the collapse, politicians are paid, putting on a show, geriatric millionaires are reliving 80s straight to TV political thrillers on cheap stages. Europe is too dependant on the US, the Ukraine war is a meat grinder proxy war. Protests are erupting in France, Switzerland, Belgium and I suspect that's not the last we're going to see of mass protests and police brutality in Europe. Meanwhile Western governments are headed to become more authoritarian to stay in power unless Europe turns away from transatlantic submission to face the reality of a multipolar order. I worry there will be lots of conflict from this because certain people want to stay in power. (Not a dog whistle in any specific direction.)
BRICS is happening. Africa is rising up to flight Western economic colonialism by demanding fair treatment. The current global economic system leads to rising nationalism, people no longer raising kids, social systems failing, slave labor in poor countries, religious radicalism and unnecessary culture clashes (fixable, if anyone in charge actually gave a fuck about proper integration with dignity).
- You're free to keep bathing yourself in ignorance. Hope it's comfy.
- Africa demanding fair treatment by moving closer with China? Good luck with that
  
  Yeah, these African politicians are of cause all stupid and just sold their souls to China instead of the USA. That must be it. :)
- I should add that I'm in no way underestimating authoritarian imperialist ambitions of Russia/China as another source for danger to freedom.
- I should add that I'm in no way underestimating authoritarian imperialist ambitions of Russia/China as another source for danger to freedom.
  
  China doesn't have any imperialist ambitions so don't worry about it.

78 comments