higher wages for the servers... by the customers. Fnbs

So it's a mandatory tip, and it's also suggested you voluntarily leave a secondary tip.

Tip culture in America is so aggressive.

All the arguments about tipping here are missing the point. The restaurant owner just came up with a bullshit way of raising the prices without showing larger numbers on the menu. That should honestly be illegal.

The thing is, by paying for food we should be paying the employees - that's how salaries work. But in an effort to out-compete each other in the razor-thin margin business that is most restaurants, they don't want their menu prices to go up, because that discourages customer spending. So many restaurants use underhanded tactics to screw customers instead. Hidden menu prices, sneaky service fees, and begging for point-of-sale tips at places where they're not getting paid shitty server salaries (like fast food).

I’ll be the one to stoop to a name and shame. From the receipt, that’s Jon & Vinny's Brentwood. Thanks—will now be sure to avoid going there.

All wages are paid by customers. Where do you think the money to pay them comes from? Heaven?

The underhanded and sneaky part is that the menu prices are a lie. If they want to pay a decent wage to their employees, good on them, but they should just raise all menu prices by 18% instead of surprising you later.

If the service charge is always there then just raise prices by 18% and stop misleading people ffs…

Corporations invented Jaywalking to pass the problem of death by vehicle from the manufacturer to the victim. Corporations invented the concept of Litterbug to shift blame from the makers of trash to the disposers of trash. Corporations invented the concept of the personal carbon footprint to shift the blame from the makers of carbon to the users of carbon.

This is just the same thing. Corporations are good at this.

What a joke. Just raise your prices and put it on the menu. I would refuse to pay that. That was not listed anywhere before you ordered.

I thought the point of paying servers a living wage was to make tipping unnecessary.

Any auto-grat on a bill is an instant big fat 0 on the tip line for me. Fuck double dipping on customers subsidizing shitty wages. It shouldn’t even need to happen once. If the restaurant can’t pay a reasonable wage it shouldn’t be in business.

I would be completely okay with a restaurant charging a bit more for meals if they also had a “do not tip” policy. Wait staff should be expected to do their jobs, the restaurant should be expected to pay their employees. As a customer I should be expected to pay the restaurant, full stop.

What is this nonsense? I mean, since the customers are the only source of income for a restaurant, of course the customers pay for the wages.

But why hide that behind obscure markups (that's all a service charge/tip is)? Why not just price the food 18% higher and drop the service charge?

That way, the restaurant earns the same money, but the customers actually know what they are going to pay and the restaurant visit doesn't end on a down note when paying.

Name and shame. Fuck this place.

Also “kids shells” for $22? Please tell me this is not macaroni and cheese.

I mean, that's basically the way it works. Here it's just 'transparent'.

Want to pay workers more - food gets more expensive. It's the same thing with America not adding sales tax to the sticker price. When I get something for 2 bucks in Europe, it's 2 bucks including the vat. In America, it's 2 bucks before vat.

But yeah, it's probably not properly implemented and just a scheme to get more money out of people.

I'm not in america, in our country when we buy a meal the tax is included, as is the cost of paying staff a living wage and tips are really only given (volunteerily, without prompt) in certain scenarios where service might genuinely be extraordinary.

It's always been fascinating to me that it could be done any other way and to be honest it sounds incredibly complicated and quite shitty the way america does it, it seems to me like it's an old fashioned relic from the swashbuckling 1800's, pay your maiden well and she'll make sure your mead is always topped up.. But in 2023 it seems absurd, prepared food and drink is just a product like anything else, do you tip at Walmart when you buy a TV?

Also by making it a service fee instead of a tip, management and the owners are able to tale part of it. Tips legally have to go to the employees, service fees can go into the owner's pockets.

"We want to charge you more, but we want to make sure you blame our wait staff for it."

I wouldn't be surprised if the QR code sends you to a website bitching about "the current administration".

EDIT: https://www.latimes.com/food/story/2023-07-03/after-lawsuit-jon-and-vinnys-change-service-fee-language-on-bill

How about businesses pay their fucking employees? What a concept

Why don't they just raise their prices a bit? Adding a "not" tip to the bill just seems odd.

A list of L.A. restaurants doing this shit from a Reddit sub:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1EEPzeytrva770H2xPFFPDUUNdpnL_VQL4vbzFph-jus/edit#gid=0

I bet legally, the establishment owners aren't required to give "service charges" to their staff the same way they are required to give 100% of the tips...

This is some shady shit, IMO.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer (so I don't know WTF I am talking about), so if someone here that knows the law could comment on "service charges" vs. "tips" in this context, I would love to know.

Frankly, the prices to sit in and be served and the prices to get the food and leave should be different. But this should be pre-informed so patrons can make the decision whether to dine-in or take-out.

Those prices are about what I'd expect to pay at a restaurant here in Finland too, maybe a little more here but somehow they're able to pay a living wage to the staff from that without extra "service charge" or tips.

Even if all the money does make into into the staff's pockets, the owner still averts financial risk by making worker pay a function of sales. An employer must have higher business risks than their staff, because otherwise the staff wouldn't need an employer anyways! This absolutely goes against the high risk - high reward scheme that is common place elsewhere. Want to earn more? Take a risky choice! Just want stable support for your life? Get employed and earn a regular wage.

Found it by the "helens shazzy" https://www.jonandvinnys.com/menu I don't live in LA so everything I see is based solely on the website. I read zero google reviews.l and just dove right in. TLdr -op you got finessed. Stop eating here my guy.

It seems by their website that fee is ONLY mentioned on the wine page (also based on this receipt and op statement, this fee is EXCLUSIVE to wine buyers for some reason) where they also charge a $50 corkage fee (most normal restaurants are 20-40), and also stock rotates "so frequently we can't maintain an updated list" which seems silly, but maybe stock at all 3 locations changes often enough that this really would would be a pain. The restaurant itself is....all over the place. Italian, and breakfast foods? But also there's Helen's Winery attached? And on weekends they act as a bakery? And they have "pizza classes" for $650? Idk they have several "sister" type restaurants that are either owned by the same owner or its some kind of franchising thing, but they're all equally VERY expensive for the food you get. Very upscale. For example [buttermilk pancakes, salted butter, maple syrup 16.25] compared to IHOP "chicken and pancakes" for $14 where you get not just 2 pancakes and butter, but 2 drumsticks. ADDITIONALLY on the Wine page "Modifications are politely declined." what does this even mean? No changes to wine? Or no modifications to your MENU? Dawg if I'm paying you 20.50 for a rigatoni, you're not putting "broccolini" in it.This shit ain't mom's house where I go to bed hungry if I don't like it. I sit at the big kids table and get a big kid fork.

For those just reading the slip, these are indeed all full dishes (not just single line items), in LA where everything costs more. Overall 0/10 I wouldn't eat here based on all this above, before even being infuriated by the "we pass the bill to you" shtick. I'm mildly infuriated just reading through this website.

When I worked delivery, at multiple places, we did in fact not see a dime of this fee. Got chewed out by customers a couple of times over it though.

This is a fascist tactic to turn people against the servers and shame those who want higher wages

Are you paying your servers a living wage or not? If yes, I'm not tipping.

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Wait, $17 for Lettuce??

There better be a big noticeable sign at the entrance telling you this. Otherwise, this is a bait and switch scam. Advertising one price, giving the service, and then changing the price. You can't advertise a price and then charge more for it without ensuring that the customer is informed about it. The only exception is tax, since it is something the average person should already expect. Even mandatory gratuity for large parties has to be communicated ahead of time. And this specifically says it's not gratuity, it's a charge for the service.

As soon as a customer is served something, it's too late. You can't just put it on the bill. Doesn't matter what they say it's for either. It's not your responsibility to pay the servers anymore than it's your responsibility to separately pay for the ingredients of the food. Unless they want to detail it all out up front. But then you'd see the huge profit margin.

Is it even legal to force you to pay more than the menu reads? I know tipping 18% is a social norm now in the states, but you can technically say no to that. Can you say no to this service tax?

The crazy thing is, Los Angeles' minimum wage is already 16.78, and restaurants are required to pay servers at least minimum wage in California. None of this lower minimum for tipped workers. So they are adding at least 18% to that, unless the 18% service fee brings their workers up to minimum wage, which is dishonest, but wouldn't put it past a restaurant to do. After all that, they have the gall to sti ask for a tip!?! It's beyond bs.

Did you pay $16.95 for lettuce? Tf kinda restaurant did you go to?

I've stopped going to restaurants because of shit like this.

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This is bonkers. Just include it in the price... I would definitely refuse it and have done it one time, when it was not clearly stated in the menu that service will be added. The waiter claimed it is "a standard fee". No, it's not and should never be.

OP post the QR code, I would love to know what restaurant this is, so I can stay clear away.

Wow. Fuck that restaurant. Fuck it to death. Fuck it to hell. Fuck it F O R E V E R. This shit should be illegal. If this is permanently part of the price IT SHOULD BE THE LIST PRICE ON THE ITEMS. PERIOD.

All I want to know is .. What the flying fuck is a "shazzy" and is it delicious?

…only mildly infuriating?!

At least this restaurant due is showing their own ass.

I thought bait and switch was illegal in the USA.

I think it's okay if there's a service charge, but it should be obvious like this and tipping afterwards shouldn't even be brought up. It's not the best solution for everyone but it's a step in the right direction of no fucking tipping

The woman was cheap though

$22.50 for kids shells? Please tell me where this is so I can never go there.

Demand they give the service charge to the server. I’ve done this with a manager recently and he was so embarrassed when it was brought to public attention he promised he would. Then I said, it was simply disgraceful to see an attempt to double dip with a mandatory charge a server wouldn’t see. But I’m a large man, so might not be easy for everyone.

Ok yeah what you are complaining about is valid but I can't get over the $22.50 for Kids Shells... Like a fucking a pasta serving for children?! This restaurant seems insane to begin with.

Edit: Realizing it looks like prices are a line off but still $16 for kids food?

Those prices are bloody insane to begin with. >22$ plus tax for chicken wings??? I can eat for 3 days just for that.

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Turns out my local casinos restaurant does this aswell but its called a forced gratuity.

I live in a Asia where service fees of 10% are normal with no tipping culture.
I can see why people may think 18% is too much, but honestly tipping culture should just be gone entirely. Waiters shouldn't have to rely on customer tips, which can vary for different reasons even ones that may be outside their control, to earn a living wage.

I will bet you that the servers do not see a dime of this 18% service charge.

That's exactly why so many restaurants are adding service charges nowadays. It's a way to legally take tip money from servers.

It's great if they include it in the bill, it gets rid of the tipping culture. If they still ask you for tips then tell them to GTFO

Let the manager know that you won't be returning and make sure they understand why, then never return.

There's already a service charge, why tip more?

Oh, please help me on this.

I'm Italian and going on a trip to the western US in less than two weeks, and still haven't understood how to behave wrt tipping/service charge.

In my previous trips to the US, before this nonsense was automatically added to the bill, I would tip between 15 and 20% depending on my level of satisfaction with the waiting staff.

What should I do now, when visiting places auto-charging a service fee?

Any advice is appreciated, thanks!

I don't get it, so they want you to tip on the auto-tipped bill? And the auto-tip is 18%, more than the suggested tips?

Glad to see they're paying a living wage and the tip went back to being an optional gratuity instead of something the server depends on to make their rent.

So they think they are a hotel providing a venue and service? I worked in Hospitality as HR and the service charge made sense for the weddings and events we did... But a smaller restaurant using a 'service' tax that they most certainly do not feed back to the employees, is predatory.. and as the consumer eating out... I would be disinclined to tip now... If they really used the service tax for the employees, the tips would not be an option, because the staff would be adequately compensated... They wouldn't need toa sk for the tips... This restaurant wants it's cake and to eat it too

You had a los Angeles woman for only 3.75?

If that 18% ain't on the menu, I ain't paying.

See, I'd check with the waiter to see if the service charge actually was used for higher wages. Just because management says that's what it's for doesn't meant it's true.

That's absolutely insane. I would let them know that it's the last time I ever set foot in their establishment

Not being from the US, I'm not familiar with the practices there. What kind of shells are suitable for kids? Is 12 necessary? Or is 20 sufficient?

That place is already out of my price range before the 18%!

What do they actually pay their staff?

If they do pay them above the norm, idgaf how they show the pricing; on menu is better, but not vital.

But if they're paying the same shit pay as everyone else, they need to have the shit sued out of them for something

Ask the waiter?

Prices for food in a restaurant is not that hard to calculate: you figure the cost of one plate of food, multiply it by four and that is price to be charged before taxation.

One part is for the pantry. One part is for the kitchen staff. One part is for the room staff. One part is for the house.

Not hard to figure.

Drinks and beverages are basically all profit, unless you want to drink water with a refined meal (the healthiest/best option but most people won't), so you will pay for a soft drink twice or triple what it costs you at the store and lets not start talking about wines, beers or, even worse, spirits.

Can anyone just fill a complain?

I have a feeling we don't do enough.

It must be something to protest legally as a hidden fee or something. I would put money in a crowdfunding for cases like this.

Citizens against apathy or something.

K, just did my part gonna keep lingering.

I rarely use tip based services bc it shouldn't be my concern and it makes me uncomfortable. It's always been a bad business model to make the customer feel like the workers are slaves that don't get paid enough. Never understood why people are so into going out to eat with that dynamic unless they enjoyed the power dynamic of it all, dumb serf get my food or you will go hungry muahhahaha!

More than 10% service charge is unacceptable already where I am. Let alone asking for a tip on top.

Did they charge you 3.75 for being an LA woman? 😂😂

I tip twenty most places. Easy to calculate and fair.

I see this and they have gotten my tip. If you work there and are upset by that, then you need to find another job because the company is stealing your tips no matter what. And I personally won't return, because it's never the best restaurants who pull this shit.

Similarly if a company puts automatic gratuity on my bill that's the tip as well.... And usually it's less than I'd give freely.

If Americans are supposed to tip extra it their choice. If you want to define service charges or something like this, then you've made your choice. Greedy fucks trying to hide these extra charges need to stop. I'll pay more for food on a menu if that's what it takes but trying to sneak it is bullshit.

IMO I think the restaurant industry is backwards, why are we tipping at sit down places while fast food workers are making $14 to 16/hr? Makes more sense to pay those wages to a sitdown restaurant than a McD's or BK.

Where the fuck did they come up with 18% being 20 odd dollars?

The servers at a place that expensive make fucking bank. Looks like you do, too.

Yes. If the minimum wage went up to something livable, do you think the restaurant owners are going to eat the cost or pass it along to you? Them putting an 18% surcharge, assuming that that's an auto-gratuity that goes to the server, is the exact same as if you were begrudgingly tipping 18%. That being said, that should be announced somewhere as an official company policy. If you want a servant to make and bring you food, you have to pay for that luxury. You've just been paying below actual market price for that luxury since you've been born.

Bold of you to assume that's going to the servers and not straight into the owners pocket.

I’m gonna get lambasted for this, but I don’t see the issue.

If the restaurant paid them more in wages, the customer would pay for that too in the form of higher on-menu prices. That’s just how paying for goods and services works.

Unless this is some mega-restaurant where the owners are making so much money that they could take a pay cut and meaningfully increase everyone’s wages?

Yo 🤗🤘 OP 😁
Print this thread out , go back and show them 😭😠 how ppl feel about their hidden Fee ... Make sure 😄😊 to bring a friend n a cellphone recording device n if drama ensues tell 'em "it's just a prank Bro ... "