Does the reddit style format breed toxicity?

Just post what you want to post and ignore the votes. A few downvotes is to be expected. Try not to read into them so much.

Mastodon was very depressing for me, this follower centric self presentation stuff is super not my style, it don't want it to be about me, I most likely suck but I say smart things some times, so I want it to be about the stuff I say.

Plus I don't mind being downvoted into oblivion. I actually think that this can be a good thing. It means that there was something at least controversial about what I posted so I might be wrong or have to argue better.

Lastly, mastodon is too much safe space and filter bubble. I want to read things from people that I disagree with and I want to argue with them in good faith. When I tried this on mastodon, I got misquoted, blocked, harassed... You name it.

This sparks a few different thoughts for me:

1. I believe there are a few Lemmy instances that don't have downvotes enabled. (Beehaw might be one of them, but don't quote me on that.) If downvotes are a stress point for you, you could try joining one of those instances.
2. I personally find both upvotes and downvotes to be useful as a way for me to quickly see the community's reaction to a piece of content. If I'm scrolling through my feed and see a post with many downvotes and few upvotes, for example, I know that post is unlikely to interest me and will move on. Conversely, a highly upvoted post or one with a mix of both upvotes and downvotes is more likely to have a good conversation in the comments in my experience.
3. If I make a post that receives a large number of downvotes - or if most of my posts tend to be downvoted - that's a signal to me that I'm either not communicating my message well (confusing, passive aggressive, etc.) or that my message itself may not be welcome (hate speech, misinformation, etc.). In either case, I use that as a mental trigger for me to reflect on my posts rather than a reason to become unhappy with the community/platform as a whole.

I’m not trying to be negative here with you - but anyone complaining about downvoted will often get another downvote from me. Say what you want to say, stand by your convictions, and don’t worry about what the internet thinks about that.

Someone praising Stack Overflow, that's a new one. The most criticized thing about SO is the toxicity and elitism of the users. Downvoting almost always comes with no explanation there.

I barely posted on Reddit due to the thought of people hating what I said or posted 😊 I think here is more friendly since it’s not huge, I share what I like and if people don’t agree that’s cool! As long as it makes someone happy it’s worth it ✨

For lack of a beter example, on stackoverflow, when someone down votes you, it comes with a comment saying how to improve. ... These platforms are a joy to use

I don't know what part of the internet you are from, but where I am from, Stackoverflow is looked down on as the quintessential example of toxic behaviour.

I've found some of the most dismissive people in tiny stack exchange groups, and experienced similar unexplained downvotes.

What SO, Reddit, and Lemmy maybe all have in common I think, is people tend to agree or disagree based on their convictions, as opposed to agreeing or disagreeing as a means of interaction.

I guess this puts the conflict and disagreement front and center. But at least then I know where people stand.

Perhaps it's important to not take opinions too personally, and remember that incencere agreement has its own problems.

I'm thinking you care too much about the thoughtless reactions of anonymous strangers.
Remember... In this game, the points don't matter.

People breed toxicity, especially if you disagree with them. The more people a site has, the shittier it is. People suck.

I don't think the format had anything to do with it, considering it was much more like Lemmy is now when I first joined 11 years ago and I've seen the same decline in other social mediums that didn't share formats as Reddit. It's just what happens when you get enough people together in one place. The abundance of dumb fucks and bad actors simply take over.

Downvotes are not a reflection on you, they are a representation of how much everyone else agrees or disagrees.

I don't personally want the downvotes hidden or removed like how it is on Youtube.

Imo, downvotes is just a disagreement. Being offended by it sounds like a "you" problem, we all have to deal with it.

Upvotes normally give me answers I need for at that moment. Downvotes makes me reassess myself.

I dont think you must read to much into the downvotes. Understand the situation why people might have downvoted you, understand why other people get upvoted, assess the situation. And most of all, understand that not everybody will always agree with you

Yearning for affirmations via fake internet points is the toxic part, not the format of a website.

During my time on reddit, I've learnt to appreciate downvotes. Silent feedback is much better than passive-aggressive replies that serve no purpose other than letting the person vent out.

I would always cringe so hard whenever I saw someone on reddit talking about downvotes, lack of upvotes, or karma at all. It's silly. Quit worrying about it.

Don't change the way you express yourself just to make yourself more acceptable to the internet hivemind. The internet is a toxic place. Lots of people simply find joy in anonymously hurting others. Just comment and move on. And maybe reply to comments that are made in good faith.

People on Lemmy try to rationalize that they'll use the downvote as intended (off topic content) but our ape brains eventually just make downvote = I don't like said thing.

I wish we could do away with upvotes and downvotes altogether.

I don't think it's the format. Forums generally get toxic when they're too big. The negative influence of a toxic user is much greater than the positive influence of a non-toxic user. The bigger the user base the more toxic users. Eventually it gets to a critical mass where you're seeing enough toxic replies to make the whole platform seem toxic.

Reddit is 18 years old. Lots of time to attract toxic users. I wasn't on Reddit from the start, but people have said Reddit didn't suffer toxicity until after it was around 10 years old. Lemmy is four years old now so it will be a while. Though Lemmy may attract a smaller less toxic crowd and avoid toxicity indefinitely.

I don't have a high opinion of community at Stack Overflow as it started out elitist by nature of its policies and rules. Yeah that's going to breed toxicity right out of the gate. I have to admit Stack Overflow has been a really good resource for technical information at times, but its community is harsh. As much as I've used it to find good technical information, I've never made an account there or had any desire to post there.

Richard Seymour talks about the dangers of social media platforms in The Twittering Machine. This isn't trifling. It leads to real harm. One factor is downvoting, as you say.

It's so easy to click it nonchalantly because you disagree. But to the person who only sees potentially thousands of downvotes, it can hit their mental health hard. Maybe this depends on the kind of content, but idk. I'd expect someone to feel more down if they're being genuine, giving advice about a hobby, something else that is personal in some way. This probably includes politics, as politics reflect values and can be wrapped up in a how someone sees themselves as a 'good person'; which makes it difficult if you're then made to think you're wildly off the mark and, possibly, a 'bad person'.

If downvotes are getting you down, you may want to reassess how you engage with social media. The best antidote is logging off for a while. Touch grass, get some fresh air. Don't engage with the communities that give you grief.

More broadly, yes, Reddit is toxic af. More so than many other places. Twitter can rival it at times but the format can take the sting out of some of the pile-ons. Some of that toxicity has come to the fediverse.

It's been especially noticeable since the API thing as new users have just seen the fediverse as a Reddit alternative. As in, Reddit but on a different server with a different brand name. Many seem not to have cared whether the culture is the same here. Or they haven't realised that an instance might have instance-wide rules (it's not only community rules that one must understand).

Up until the API thing, Redditors occasionally brought Reddit toxicity with them, but they were outnumbered and tended to change their ways or disappear. Now, they might get support for that kind of behaviour from other new users.

In fact, if you look at some of the user accounts of the people chastising you – for (a) being concerned out yours and others' wellbeing and (b) for wanting to improve/maintain a positive culture – or dismissing your concerns, they're new accounts, probably come from Reddit recently with some of that toxicity. Maybe this would have happened two months ago? I can't remember anything like it around here, though.

Here's hoping the Reddit culture a swift end.

The only place on here that I've noticed downvotes is on comments that have been obviously social media shills (reddit or meta) or right wing type comments that are not the type of thing a community should support in my opinion. I'm not saying you're doing either of those things and if you're being downvoted in another context I don't know why.

That said, downvotes shouldn't really get you down. If you've said something awful then you deserve them and should reassess your outlook if you were unaware that your views or attitude were unpleasant. If you're getting downvoted on a tech related thing then I don't know what that's all about but I would try not to worry about it too much because it doesn't really affect your life, it's just a fake internet down arrow.

It is a problem of an Eternal September. Reddit was set up where the downvote was supposed to mean more than just disagreeing with people, but the influx of users, especially those only participating with Reddit by upvoting and downvoting, couldn't be taught what you were supposed to do.

As a former Redditor, I can only say that I've not yet begun looking at votes. Why do you determine the value of your post based on that? Make your post, read and respond to people who comment and have a great day.

It's a distilled version of 'the wisdom of the crowds'. With all the dog piling that comes with reactions to things that are pointed at the wrong audience. There's generally some people with baggage in there somewhere who will take issue, and you get downvoted.

However, what's always interesting about these platforms is where good ideas rise, where they come from, and how controversial they are, all of which you lose with the twitter/mastodon architecture.

It may be easier to find your crowd, but how useful is that to you depends on what you use your online presence for.

Instance admins can simply disable downvotes. You don't need them.

Thankfully the instance I'm on doesn't have downvotes. I find what leads to toxic communities is when admins don't remove toxic content or users.

IDK, I think most of the toxicity comes from when something gets popular. I never read much into the votes on reddit because it's usually more influenced by when you post than what you post. If you combined all the karma of my accounts it'd probably be in the millions but mostly I was just trying to either help people or make them laugh, never cared much about the points.

The karma/upvote/downvote system encourages engagement and gives users an idea of how others perceive their posts. It also encourages people to think about their posts and it helps keep garbage from clogging up the feed.

The problem is that posts are now “attention-centric” and that might lead to people posting stuff that’s more controversial or even “rage-bait” because it gets a reaction.

But honestly though, the toxicity was always there. It’s just that now people express it with an arrow click instead of a flame post calling out the OP’s mom.

I think anonymity or at least the perception of it on the internet breeds toxicity because it’s easier to hurt someone when neither party has to look each other in the eye.

Not necessarily toxicity, but echo chambers. Echo chambers could then be used to be toxic.

Personally core belief that people create and breed the toxicity. Use any system you want if people behave toxic it will become toxic.

NO! YOU SUCK!

More seriously: downvotes can be disabled on Lemmy instances on an instance-by-instance basis. I have them disabled on mine, for example, because I too find them difficult to deal with. If you don't like downvotes, that could be an easy solution for you.

I think that the current downvote system is far from ideal, and ideally there should have some piece of "forced" feedback when you downvote someone, but keep in mind that a downvote is just "this should be less visible". For example, people often downvote OK answers because an even better answer popped up, and they want the later to rise to the top. So a lot of times there's no actual hostility in the downvotes.

And for other Reddit behaviours that people often call toxic (I call them SNOO - stupid, noisy, obnoxious, obtuse), I think that it's cultural. The Reddit admins bred that behaviour into the users; and users are likely to carry it with them elsewhere, including Lemmy. I think that most of those individuals will get better over time here, and the ones who don't will end leaving.

“Toxicity” is just like “racism”, newspeak to censor and bully, if you need to mention it you are the one doing the harm