Those who left and those who could not flee speak of a country in ruins and decry the world’s apathy towards the humanitarian crisis and the lack of rights, mainly for women, which a UN report describes as ‘gender apartheid’
Remember when the Afghan people had a phenomenally well equipped and well trained army, and then they just gave up inside a week because things were “hard”?
Like if you don’t give a shit…no one is going to give a harder shit about you than you will.
At some point, the people of Afghanistan should be able to take control of their own country. How can a vast majority of the people sit there and let a tiny percentage dictate the lives and rules for everyone? Kick the Taliban out of your country.
IDK exactly what the "world" can do here. The Taliban is the legit government of Afghanistan now (well, maybe legit should be in quotes). Do people want another war to take out the Taliban? That didn't go so well the first time. And there are already sanctions on the Taliban's government but other countries are still willing to trade with them.
I don't see any international fix working here. There needs to be internal change. Whether that's reform, coup, or whatever.
We spent twenty years fighting their battles for them, $2.3 trillion spent helping build up their infrastructure, supplying them with weapons and training, and trying to help them build a legitimate democratic government. After all our efforts, expenses, and American lives lost, it took the Taliban just ten days to retake the entire country. Freedom can't be given it has to be won, and frankly they weren't willing to fight for theirs... and I say this as a disabled combat veteran who lost dozens of friends to this conflict either in combat or to their own hands once they returned home. What a waste.
There was an attempt at nation building and it didn't go well. Afghanistan and the Middle East is a culturally complicated place, it's mostly tribes and smaller villages with a lot of history. It's hard to point fingers at the US for leaving when a decent chunk of the country either didn't care, or didn't want them there anymore.
You aren’t forgotten. US and allies accepted the decision that was made within a week of us leaving. The country, as a whole, collectively chose the easy route of Taliban rule. That decision has consequences.
I'm not sure what people want, exactly. 20 years of occupation wasn't enough to change their culture even a little bit. Do they want permanent American occupation? That's clearly untenable for many reasons. I don't want America to be the world police, and I don't want them invading countries on moral grounds.
Any aid given to Afghanistan immediately ends up in the hands of the Taliban now.
When externals were (unsuccesfully) trying to change something in the country, it was a total bust. I read in these comments that intentions were not pure from America, and I can imagine that. I also saw interviews with US military personal after they came back from Afghanistan, who seemed to genuinely want to help, but had to deal with a lot of corruption, low education, internal theft and child abuse (Bachi Bazi). Now no one is helping, and even though I'd like for the local population to live free lives, I don't even know how one would start to help. The Taliban will just hide and guerilla it's way back after occupation has dissapated. It seems like a real life Kobayashi Maru situation. No winners, only losers here :(
Gotta love all the 'muricans trying to defend their exceptionalism and blaming Afghanistan and its people for the country's woes.
USA never cared about Afghanistan or its people. In the 1980s, it, along with Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and United Kingdom, helped fund the muhajideen fighting against the Soviet Union (Soviet-Afghan war). As soon as the war was over and the soviets retreated, the funding dried up.
After 9/11, USA went into a bloodlust, invading Afghanistan because they (Taliban) wanted proof that Osama bin Laden was involved with the terrorist attack first. bin Laden fled to Pakistan, but the USA didn't invade them, nor threatened to. Instead, USA just kept their boots on foreign soil because, hey, free real state and cheap poppy, amirite?
Also, since at least 2010, it's been publicly known that Pakistan has been helping the Taliban in fighting for Afghanistan. Yet, there were no sanctions, no tough talks, no threats, nothing, against Pakistan.
Not to be a dick but if they don't like it they could do something about it themselves. Hoping that "the world will do something" rarely has good results.
What do they expect? Permanent US occupation? If they really expect that, then they're going to need to make themselves a US territory or deal with themselves.
Can't believe the victim blaming going on in this thread. What the fuck? You people can't understand that ordinary people didn't want to rise up and risk their lives? They weren't asking for help from citizens of other countries like them, they were asking for help from other militaries since their own failed them. Yet, the people are to blame? How is that a popular opinion? The complete lack of empathy from the privileged is alarming.
Afghanistan is full of a bunch of small tribes. They all hate each other and refuse to work together. Just go Google "dancing boy parties Afghanistan" you will quickly lose any sympathy for the people and culture. The US had to turn a blind eye to pedophile parties, which are a time honored tradition, in order to keep order.
The forces the US trained and equipped were basically the dregs of society that would be in prison in most countries. They would steal and sell shit to the Taliban. Claiming to have driven many miles on patrol to syphon and sell the gas was common practice. They sold the guns and trucks. There is no helping this country. It's going to be a shit show until they get past their tribal hatred and work together.
Forget quickly? You want someone to invade again? What is the world supposed to do? They sanction, break diplomatic relations, issue travel advisories, the only thing left is another war. Nobody wants that.
Does anyone have stats on Afghanistan's opinions on America's occupation right before we left? I imagine most of them wanted America to leave...
Though I'm now curious what their TRUE opinion was of the Taliban, because I see people wanting Communism back in Russia, I imagine people wanted the Taliban back instead of the Americans.
I'm sure at least 50 percent of them are like "Fuck no" (women), but when that group isn't a huge part of the people guarding the country, I wonder if this was inevitable. Even if we somehow destroyed the entire Taliban, there would be another fundamental Islamic group who wanted to take over.
I know way too little about this to have an actual opinion about it. I read the article just as a way to learn more about what's going on with those people right now. At the very least their lives are ruined, and we're mostly just hearing from the refugees.
Ending quote:
The man blames the former Afghan government under Ashraf Ghani and the international coalition, which operated in the country for 20 years, for “everything falling apart so quickly.” “We have lost everything, even our hope for the future. We’re living in a country of lies, a country that no longer exists,” he concludes.
Damn, a lot of "Fuck Afghanistan, hoo rah America is great" kinda vibes in here :-/ I left Reddit to get away from the constant USA Defaultsm nonsense...
Yes, let's ignore the most important issue - people are suffering and as decent humans we have a duty to them, when we can instead use it as an excuse to point out how much better Americans are at being a country, etc etc :-(
Hell I'm pretty sure people are forgetting Ukraine is at war. This is why I hated the "They're winning" "Russia is retreating" rhetoric. Because wars take a long time and a lot of people will die in them. People are cheering something they have no part in but by saying "Ukraine is winning" I think many of them also add "And now we can stop focusing on them".
Part of it is the media diverting attention or focusing on what they want people to focus on (watch how coverage of different shootings are covered. If it's a white guy with a death toll, it's covered far more than if it's a woman, a non-minority, or a low death toll. People will defend that by "It's focusing on the higher death toll" But doesn't focus on the coverage changes based on race, gender, or if it's a gang/drug related shooting.
Part of this is click bait but I think part of it too is a narrative that's formed. Which is why school shootings are covered more than random alleys and such. But the reason why isn't the problem, it's more how the media shapes the national narrative due to what they decide to focus on.
The other part is people have enough going on in their life that they can't think of every little thing going on in the world, but since the news is covering this, I guess we'll focus a bit on Afghanistan for a bit again.
Despite the narratives, the world at large hasn't really ever come together for the sole purpose of liberating an oppressed people within a country. No
The only way Afghanistan is going to see Democracy IMHO is about the same way as Nazi Germany n imperial Japan ... The world has to get involved in it's rebuilding
Same for Russia, if there is some kind of end of war .. Russia will always go back to it's corrupt/ evil ways... Without intervention there's no hope...
As if this is the first time an imperial superpower has intervened so heavily in a country and then backed the fuck up once there was no profit left to be made and left the locals to go fuck themselves.
And yet fuckers whose only knowledge of the situation over there comes from their biased racist google search abilities, and who not only would, without a shadow of a doubt, run and hide and piss themsleves if they ever encountered any situation a tenth as threatening as Afghan people have had to put up with, but probably end up joining the oppressive force because that's what people with tiny fragile egos tend to do - seek ways to abuse others, get to sit here and judge those poor people who are nothing but pawns in a war for profit for "not helping themselves"?!
The fucking audacity of you fuckers is beyond belief.
I'd say go read some fucking history and educate yourselves about the hundreds of examples of how imperial and colonial powers have ravaged and then abandoned people all across the globe, but I honestly don't think it'd help people with their heads so far up their own asses that they actually think their ignorant selves are somehow qualified to pass judgment on these people's lives.
Soviet (mission accomplished) : 3 years against US + China and muslim world backing after USSR dissolved....
US (disorganised retreat) : 3 days with no backer...
Modern afganistant still rely on soviet infrastructure...
That's because people only care that other people think they care. Your average American or European could give two shits what happens to women in their own countries let alone Afghanistan.
Ukrainians, you are up next! Stop following that clown and sue for peace. To my western media brainwashed fellow brethren: do some research, Putin has been offering peace talks since 3 days after the beginning of the war. He's being blown away by the Z clown, like a spoiled kid of a rich dad (USA!). Stop the suffering of slavic people and end the war now by starting peace talks.