2y ago

Incel vs Excel

47 comments

Cute, and forgive me for getting serious in a humor thread, but I can't stand how the term "incel" has come to functionally mean "any guy who exhibits entitlement towards women." I'm not blaming OP for this nor really anyone else, it's just a disappointing thing that's happened in society IMO. Incel started as a term for men who felt depressed about being unable to find a female partner, and the subreddit they created was originally a supportive space for them. Then it got taken over by angry misogynists and the term became associated with them, while the original group just kind of got forgotten about. That original group deserves attention and empathy as well as the term they coined; the latter group isn't even "involuntarily celibate," as they play a very big role in their own celibacy.
Anyway, sorry for ruining the mood if I have, I just think more people should give some thought to who that term originally belonged to.
- Internet history pedantry, but by the time the subreddit rolled around, the term and the movement had already been coopted.
  Incel started as a term for men who felt depressed about being unable to find a female partner, and the subreddit they created was originally a supportive space for them.
  The term was coined somewhere between 1994 and 1997 by "Alana's Involuntary Celibacy Project" as a term for people of all genders who were unable to find partnership despite trying. Alana is a woman, and is effectively universally credited with coining the term and founding the movement. The movement wasn't 'for men', the term wasn't about men specifically, and it didn't start on Reddit. It started off as more of a personal blog, where Alana documented her own experiences and struggles - the site gained followers from other people with similar experiences, eventually growing into a combined forum / support group / community.
  Then it got taken over by angry misogynists and the term became associated with them, while the original group just kind of got forgotten about. That original group deserves attention and empathy as well as the term they coined; the latter group isn’t even “involuntarily celibate,” as they play a very big role in their own celibacy.
  Those folks have kind of always been there, and have always been a heavily represented demographic - Alana has said in interviews that the men who joined in the early days did have some concerning views and some concerning themes were on frequent repeitition in the discussions the community had. I don't think retconning the movement to exclude those people from the "true definition" is doing either camp any favours. The "involuntary" part of the label isn't trying to engage with whether or not the barrier may stem from factors within their control, but solely confined to the fact that they want something and are not getting it. They are simply "celibate, but not voluntarily celibate".
  One quip that Alana made in several interviews while defining her modelling of the community she founded was that she didn't care why someone was an incel, ie "it's OK if you're celibate because you're into horses, but that's illegal" that that person should still be welcomed and included in the community.
  I just think more people should give some thought to who that term originally belonged to.
  I think that in light of this, it's even more important to be accurate and honest who those people are: Not male-exclusive, not limited to this or that cause of celibacy, not specifically gatekeeping out the misogynists or the beastialists any more than any other group. Just any people who want to get laid but are not getting laid.
  
  The misogyny incels have is based on the "a slut is a girl that'll fuck anyone, a bitch is a girl that'll fuck anyone but you". I guess I can kinda commiserate that if every girl I asked out said no, I might get a pretty bad attitude. I'm not saying it's right, but it's understandable.
  
  Interesting. Thanks for the history lesson. I have a hard time believing that all of even just most of the men that initially joined her group had "concerning views" if that's meant to refer to the misogyny we see in those most associated with the term today, but I do know that plenty of the posters I saw on the subreddit years ago when I visited were not of that ilk.
  I'm not sure I agree with you though about how the term should be used. I see your point, but I think if the term was originally coined to represent people who were genuinely suffering from external circumstances that put them in the position they're in, it should remain for them and not those who sabotage themselves via their own toxic behavior. Even if this Alana you mentioned feels otherwise, I still stand by that. People who feel entitled to sex from the people they're attracted to are not celibate involuntarily in the same way that people who aren't that way are. One group deserves empathy and compassion; the other deserves scorn and derision. I don't think it's productive or fair to the former group to use the same term for both.
- I didn't even know the origin of that term. That's kinda sad, thanks for the info!
  
  It stands for “involuntary celibate.” I’m not sure I agree that it started out “innocent,” though. I’ve yet to meet someone who identified as an incel that didn’t at least partially blame women for the situation they were in.
  
  No prob! Yeah, it's kinda sad--I'll bet you're not the only one who doesn't know about this, because the shitty misogynist group completely stole the spotlight from the original.
- While it is sad that the terms meaning has changed to something so disgusting: It is what is now. It makes no sense now to act like it still has the old meaning but I agree that it is a good idea to think about the topic as a whole.
  
  It makes no sense now to act like it still has the old meaning
  I mean, yes, there's no sense in refusing to acknowledge the present association, but the meanings of words can change, and it isn't impossible for the term 'incel' to return to it's former meaning if enough people are made aware of its history.
- Well said but as we know from reddit the bigger the community gets the shittier the community gets usually
  
  Praise spez I guess
  
  Indeed, sad but true.
- I thought it was actually a lesbian woman who started the first incel group? Either way yeah it’s interesting because as usual, there are people who are wronged (or treated unfairly) by society, and people who wrong society and then feel wronged because of natural consequences.
  
  That would certainly be interesting if that's actually the case! I visited the subreddit a long time ago out of curiosity and all the posts I saw were straight men complaining about not being able to get a girlfriend, so I dunno, but maybe. There's certainly no reason the term can't be used for someone regardless of gender or sexual orientation.
- Those "hostile takeovers" and stigmatization of communities appear to happen rather often.
  Like "hacker", where the original hackers have dispersed and sought refuge as "makers" or "DIYs", after being labelled "dangerous and malicious".
  Or "feminists", which has become more and more synonymous for "feminazi".
  Or the whole lgbtq+ stuff, which I feel is self-inflicted, but that is likely because I've met one of the black sheep that every community has and which allow this exact phenomenon to happen.
  But that it happens a lot, does not make it any less annoying.
  
  Or “feminists”, which has become more and more synonymous for “feminazi”.
  We must hang out in completely different places, it's been years since I heard much about feminazi-type feminists
- It is not surprising that a community that associates and labels itself with a negative aspect of themselves would devolve into an irrational and hateful space. “Involuntary” means against one’s will, which in this context implies an entitlement to sex. No one is entitled to love and affection. And instead of working on themselves, or going outside, “incels” choose to feel bad on the internet and congregate and reinforce their beliefs when they should be meeting new people and socializing. The only social interaction they’re getting is from their classmates, many of which are physically active horny guys who are fucking lots of different girls and naturally that leads to envy. Most of these guys I guarantee are perfectly normal dudes, but they game all night as soon and they get home from school. It’s not uncommon for these guys to lose their virginity in their 20s when they start working for a living and the odds even out.
  
  It is not surprising that a community that associates and labels itself with a negative aspect of themselves would devolve into an irrational and hateful space.
  So, a community about depression or addiction is doomed to devolve into irrational hatred? I don't think I follow your logic here.
  “Involuntary” means against one’s will, which in this context implies an entitlement to sex.
  ??? I definitely don't see how "involuntary" implies entitlement. It just means you want it, but for one reason or another haven't been able to get it. Entitlement reflects the attitude that you deserve it, which I don't think the term implies.
  As for your characterization of the group, when I visited the subreddit years ago, I saw posts from men complaining about overwhelming anxiety stopping them from approaching women they were attracted to, feelings of low self-esteem or body/facial image issues, and even disabled men trying to contend with how their disabilities limited their options. You're probably right about some of them, but definitely not all of them.

This is actually fantastic

Scientists renamed some genes because Excel kept turning the original names into dates: https://www.theverge.com/2020/8/6/21355674/human-genes-rename-microsoft-excel-misreading-dates

I've always liked the one that adds a third overlapping circle for "me eating a fig"

Also, me eating a prune.

Oh, this is good.

excel helping by removing leading zeros so you have to add ' and then excel puts a passive aggressive tick on that cell.

The effect of having a cel
- Makes them in cels interlinked

I'm a lesbian, and I've learned I need to assume anything can be a date, otherwise I just assume it's not cause women do all kinds of stuff together lol.
Unless we're like close platonic friends, it's a date lol.