Stop being elitist, spread Linux!

Permanently Deleted

If you're actually expecting people to transition without asking for help on a regular basis, you don't know people.

You just made yourself their IT guy for life.

No, it's better to be honest. The average user isn't ready for Linux, because Linux is not ready for the average user. I'd never try and get someone to use it if they're not already interested. I hate that it is this way, but it is. Linux is only really for people who already want to use it. Because if you're not interested in using it, you're not going to put forth the time investment to gain the benefits from it. No matter what angle I look at it from Linux is not for the average person.

Your second paragraph says it all. Find out if the user needs to dual boot? The answer is obviously "No" because no matter what they're using the computer for, Linux is unneeded for them, since they have Windows. There are tangible benefits to using Windows, since it runs their software, meanwhile, you failed to list any real benefits to using Linux for the average user. It's faster? No, not really, since they'll be learning how to use it, and even ignoring that, it's not so much faster that they'll perceive it anyway. It's more secure? Not really, Windows is the better choice for the average user in that respect, since it'll automatically force them to restart the machine every week to install security updates. Main choice of professionals? That's not entirely true, and even if it were, it's not relevant, the average user is not a professional. And for anyone who already owns a computer already running Windows, Windows was 'free' too.

The only time to have this discussion is if the user is having a PC built, and then the answer is also "No" to Linux, because they're going to buy Windows anyway, since it's better for gaming, and that's the primary reason for someone to build a PC, unless they're doing a specialized task like video editing, and if they are invested enough into the task to want a PC just for that, they have specialized software that almost always runs only on Windows, and even if it were able to run on either, it's not my place to alter their workflow.

The real elitist attitude is thinking people need to use Linux in the first place. For me and (maybe) you, it might get the job done, but for my family and friends. It's better that they use what they're comfortable with. The main point of a computer is to accomplish tasks, and giving them Linux is a hindrance to that.

Linux is great, but it's not for everyone, and it may never be.

No. Mint is fine for my dad who uses a browser and an email program and nothing else. I'm not gonna recommend it to people who do a lot more with their machines. I can tell them I use Linux and they can ask me anything if they are ever curious about making the switch, but that is it. If they don't make the conscious decision to use Linux, then they won't stick with it anyways.

I don't buy the whole "the more users a software has, the better it gets" rhetoric. Historically this has been the opposite of the case. There's an even higher users-to-contributors ratio amongst the general population. Not all users share the same respect for the philosophy behind FOSS.

If the driving force behind design decisions becomes "what keeps people happy so they'll keep using our software" and not "freedom," there's now a practical incentive to sell out and introduce more Intellectual Property shenanigans into the ecosystem. After all, it's a lot easier to hire devs and churn out new features and keep the software actively developed for the foreseeable future if there's money in it. And the only way there can be money in it is if there are proprietary licenses shitting up the place, and Shit As A Service suscription models as far as the eye can see.

Linux always has been, and should always continue to be, about freedom. If that freedom comes with user-friendliness, great! If not, then we have to pay the price: taking responsibility for the tools and tech we use and learning how to use them properly and contributing to them to maintain a community of likeminded people. Otherwise, we're not worthy of the freedom and the responsibilities it entails.

I get your point about elitism and gatekeeping. We're no better than Windows users or Mac users or any other OS' users. We just have a set of values unique to our community, and they have sets of values that differ. We also shouldn't be throwing users under the bus in the name of politics, but part of what makes Linux slightly more bearable is the way the driving philosophy of Free Software is evident throughout. Linux is better than it could be because it attracts the people who want to be here for the community's values, not the people who have to be coaxed and coerced into accepting the values to use the "best"/"easiest"/"friendliest" software.

This is gonna cause more harm than good. The reason people think it's techy is because it is. I would recommend linux to my grandma and someone who loves tech. The middleground runs into a lot of issues for doing anything beyond basic computer stuff.

This post gives me the vibe of someone desperately trying to get people to buy the cryptocurrency they're invested in. Particularly the part where only the good is mentioned and the bad is omitted.

Some linux people are pretty elitist though, and it's not helping the cause. but in the same way, i dont think pretending that it's the greatest thing since sliced tea is much better.

People who daily drive Linux are not the ones who spread the old idea that it's "too techy".

There’s 0 need for Linux to grow. It powers 80% of new web-apps, runs the big gaming systems, parts of azure and aws. It’s the go-to server os for most use-cases.

The Linux desktop needs to mature if it’s to grow. Non-tech users don’t care for “new and innovative ux paradigms”. They don’t wanna scan the internet to figure out why sound is missing after upgrading to pop_os 4. That or they need someone close by to fix it for free

All I want is to be able to post a question in a forum and get an answer besides "Until you read these 3 texts and 20 MAN entries I don't want you to even stain this forum's pages with your ignorant drivel'.

I've been trying to go linux for 20 years now and every fuckdamn time a problem I cannot solve or find an answer for online leads to the above and I'm done.

You guys may have cleaned up your community now but I don't have the energy or patience to try it again.

Full Disclosure: IT admin with 3 decades of experience including supporting linux servers. If I have a hard time with it, think about what your average 'raised on a smartphone' newbie is going to think.

Stop being elitist.

Use linux mint.

Why linux mint?

It's like ubuntu but no snaps.

What's ubuntu?

It's like debian but not as stable. You'll get more recent apps in ubuntu, test them, and when they are tested companies use the apps in debian.

Ok, What are snaps?

You can install packages with snap, but it's proprietary.

Ok, that's bad?

Yes. Foss apps are great and better than proprietary garbage.

Ok, foss good, proprietary garbage.

Why debian and not fedora?

Because all apps are build for it.

So it's like aur?

No. Aur is made by users for users. Builds on debian are mostly official.

So the package manager is better on debian?

Yes, kind of.

I heard of distrobox. I could use the package manager on any distro.

Yes, but it's easier at the beginning to stick to one distro and package manager to get used to it.

Why not arch?

It's too unstable.

Ok, no arch distro. I heard manjaro is good.

No, it holds back packages for no reason.

Ok. What about fedora?

It doesn't have as many packages.

But it has the copr, aren't there a lot of apps?

Yes, but it's like aur, it's build by users. Debian builds are good, stable and widely used.

Ok. What about nix? I heared it's the new arch and there are even more packages.

Yes, but It's not for newbies.

What is an immutable system? I heared that's the next big thing.

It's like android an image based operating system where you can't brick your system by accident with rm -rf /

What's rm -rf /?

Just test it in a terminal, it's fun.

How can I play games?

You install steam.

Do I have to configure anything?

Hopefully not

Can I only use linux mint?

No you can use any distro, they are all linux. You can choose whatever you want. Just choose mint.

Why mint?

It has no snaps.

What do I use instead?

Flatpaks

If I use flatpaks, why does the package manager matter so much?

Because not all apps are available as flatpacks, especially command line tools. Snaps has cli but it's proprietary.

Can't I just use any distro and use a debian distrobox for those packages I need from debian?

Yes, use linux mint, it's easy to use.

Do I actually need all those packages? I only use word and steam.

No, probably not.

Why not using ubuntu and install flatpaks?

Because ubuntu sucks.

But isn't mint based on ubuntu?

Yes, but it has no snaps.

Can't I just use debian?

Yes, but it doesn't have the latest packages.

How do I install word?

You can't. You can use the online version.

That's a lot to understand. Can't I just windows? I only open steam anyway.

Yes, but it's proprietary.

Steam is also proprietary.

Yes, but you xan play games with it on linux.

But if steam is proprietary, and windows is proprietary, and I mainly use steam anyway, does it even matter?

What's a DE?

Linux mint uses cinnamon, it's cool!

I saw some KDE screemshots. It looks cool and everyone talks about it. There's a big release coming in a few weeks. how do I install it?

You usually don't mix DEs unless you know what you do.

I don't.

Then don't mix it.

But I want to use KDE. Which distro should I use? Kubuntu?

No, it uses snaps like ubuntu.

...

Things are fine until one day they need to plug this random peripheral/accessory and it's not plug and play. Then they hate you forever

I don't often suggest Linux to friends or family, because I don't want to be on the hook for tech support. I also don't want to be the blamed party when they inevitably give up, and be obligated to reinstall their old OS.

Linux is growing naturally. There's little reason to suggest it to someone who won't benefit from it.

EDIT: I want to clarify, I appreciate the spirit of your post. But I also want to call out, that it just isn't the best choice for most people.

If someone comes to me I'm more than happy to answer questions and help, but I won't bring it up. People don't like being told that their tool of choice is "bad" "not optimal" or anything like that. Even if it's only their choice because they grew up with it or don't want to learn anything new. And they still need to learn if it's more than browsing the web.

Also I really don't want to be the one they come running to once something doesn't work the way they expected - or not at all. I don't have the time nor the inclination to be tech support for my family and half of my friends.

casually mentions how i run linux. other person. that's cool. continues with windows.

if they don't want to hear it, they don't want to hear it. but if they do, they know they can ask.

I don’t think anyone who isn’t already curious about Linux should install Linux. And I sure as hell am not going to try to convince anyone and be blamed for not being able to use adobe products.

Build an automatic Linux mint installer that can handle most typical configurations and migrate data and apps from windows (with wine)

Get some oldish windows exploits together.

Build a worm that replaced vulnerable windows systems with mint

???

Profit (3 free meals a day and TV for the rest of your life)

I’m a Linux user and fan for a lot of years now. Software engineer by profession.

It’s not ready for widespread adoption to the less tech-savvy masses.

It misses some functionality that is really hard to get right but is absolutely expected to get right. For example: graceful suspend and wakeups. It happens so often even to me that I close my Linux laptop for the day, next morning open it up to a bunch of warnings and error messages about Bluetooth adapters or whatever the device of the day that wants to malfunction is that prevents a sound _S2 S3 sleep.

I don’t get freaked out about it. But grandma sure would. And yet my 10 year old MacBook Pro gets it right every single fucking time; completely flawlessly. This is the bar of usability that Linux has to achieve for widespread adoption as a true, polished, personal computing experience.

edit: meant S3 sleep.

People can make their own choices. I have 6-7 Linux machines, and asked my brother to install it too. He hated the experience. He bought a Mac at the end, and he's very happy with it. Some people just don't want Linux. They don't care about its philosophy, or that it's free. They want an ecosystem, and a status symbol.

Stop being elitist about Linux, the amount of times I’ve had to explain that none of my software runs great on Linux just to have to hear how with trouble shooting it will. My work depends on the use of my software, it’s collaborative. If I have to trouble shoot every time adobe or Ableton updates it’s a bad use of my time and is actively taking time away from projects. Only I use VSTs for music production, they all work perfectly in windows and MacOS. Linux? Hit or miss.

Maybe I’m convinced. Now I gotta find the right one, set it up. Get all my software working, learn a new UI, hope that it doesn’t break collaboration. All in all, not worth the little I would save.

As much as I like the premise, the average Joe doesn’t care.

It is techy, as long as it’s not seamless to transition, average person won’t bother.

What a person knows already > all of the other benefits. That’s why people use Photoshop and not GIMP.

If they need to dual boot, forget it. “Can’t I just use windows instead if I have to switch anyway?”

If they can’t install it themselves, they won’t bother learning the system. Say what you want but I think Windows still shits itself less than Linux. And when it does there is a lot more people who can help without typing in cryptic commands into the terminal.

For Linux to become more popular, more open standards would need to be mainstream. Leave Adobe, MS Office and other proprietary software that everyone uses. It’s like asking people to stop using PDFs because YOU a techy person think MD is better or whatever.

Stop doing this. Just be normal.

But please don't give unsolicited advice about Linux. No one wants that.

Irony: being elitist about the most egalitarian operating system

I generally disagree with trying to get people to use linux now. Im seeing a lot of people leaving linux and getting turned off by the idea of it.

Aside from outliers like Android and Chrome OS, I do not think Linux is in a suitable state for non-techy people to use unfortunately. I'm really hoping PopOS will be able to change things in the future, however as it stands I really don't think it is ready for prime time.

Users expect things that kind of just work and Linux Mint has not been that experience for me. I found the app store to be kind of annoying to use and complicated. The settings app were not very well laid out and miscellaneous stuff like that, which kind of ruins the experience.

Meanwhile, there are just general Linux issues to accessibility becoming worse and worse instead of better. You have issues like we still don't have a distro with good wine integration so people can use the apps they actually need to use. The apps that we do have natively, are oftentimes relatively... janky. If you're comparing Libreoffice to Microsoft Office, the experience is just not the same, even if the technical capability is.

EDIT: I want Linux to succeed just as much as anybody else. In fact, I think I might want it to succeed more because I absolutely detest maintaining Windows installs. However, lying about the state of Linux and being dishonest about it is not the way to go about this. We should be honest with all of its issues, so to speak. So that way we can strive to make them better instead of ignoring them and sweeping them under the rug for the people we tell to trial and to find instead.

But you’re forgetting the most important thing—people don’t want to change. They want a big corporation to tie themselves to because brand loyalty is a replacement for the need to learn.

Linux isn’t going to replace your phone with AppleCare. Linux doesn’t have a support line to bitch to or a geek squad to call. In fact, most of the places your typical user would think to go for support will likely balk at a Linux system because they aren’t power users either—just employees trained for a specific service.

I love Linux. I flirt with going 100% FOSS all the time. But I wouldn’t recommend it for my mom. All the free security in the world couldn’t replace the value of being able to tell her “take it to Apple and let them fix it for you”.

So yes, I’m with you, but I also think we need to acknowledge that all tools serve a purpose, and some people prefer the kids meal over the big boy buffet—and that’s ok.

Headline: "Person new to and overly excited about Thing, starts telling other more experienced people about how to approach and think about Thing"

Stop being elitist

That takes away most teenagers' motivation to use Linux xD

I've "refreshed" a couple coworker's old PCs with Linux Mint XFCE. It's actually gone pretty well.

"All I do is browse the net."

Okay, I'll put the browser right on the desktop, so you don't have to search for it. Be patient, it's an older computer. But at least this works, unlike Windows.

And I haven't really heard too much from them. Internet works. Basic needs fulfilled.

I feel like someone who knows a bit more could be more of a pain. But for very basic computing needs like paying your bills and surfing IG, it can go well.

Not only should we not recommend Linux we should be more "elitist". If a user wants to use Linux we should provide help but we should not convince. Linux is a fundamentally technical system due to its high skill celling. It will also never be able to do everything Windows does, I may be ok with that (and most Linux users are) but the average person may not. Also why do we need to advertise? More users doesn't mean anything. The only thing that matters is more programmers who are willing to contribute and maintain along with corporate sponsors.

TLDR; there is nothing wrong with telling someone to not use Linux if they aren't already

Linux is not ready for mainstream users. I daily drive Mint, have a recent (2 year old) system, and still run into annoying bugs that would drive non-techies back to Windows. My current issue is my permanently attached external hdd mounting under a new folder name every reboot. Other issues I've had to resolve include (but are not limited to) bluetooth, graphics drivers, software repos, etc. I would not want to become tech support for somebody else dealing with their random issues because I recommended Linux.

I wrote it here some time ago. Tried Linux Mint with the intention of finally switching from windows on my notebook. Bricked one partition that I forgot I had set to dynamic, Headphone jacks didn't work even after fiddling around with arcane parameters in the cli. If you mainly need the command line to set your system up and stuff doesn't work out of the box people don't have the nerve to switch and learn all that. Love Linux, great on steamdeck, have a couple of Virtual Machines to play around with on my old Poweredge server but it's not ready for me, the average user. That and I've to use windows for my cad work at my job anyways. I'll take the downvotes but you'll have to realize you are tech savvy people who have fun learning all that. Most people don't.

Ill be honest I don't feel any need or desire to actively crusade for Linux or spread it. Microsoft will keep making windows worse, many users will eventually reach a breaking point. Just be there to support the people seeking a better path, easier than trying to convince disinterested people into throwing out their tools.

Things are about to get worse for onboarding those from other platforms. There’s been this massive push the last year to get every window manager to switch to Wayland & drop X11 support… meanwhile Wayland doesn’t support color profiles or color management (just sRGB). How are you going to convince someone with an awesome screen to drop down to sRGB? How will you convince someone with a poor screen that has been color calibrated to make it usable to go back to off colors? How do you expect content creators to migrate & still create content if they can’t have access to all the color tools they use in their workflow to come to Linux when Wayland won’t support them? A lot of Linux folk act like this doesn’t matter, but to a lot of people, a computer is a magic box that they interact with via a screen + keyboard + mouse, & if non-niche peripherals aren’t supported (which DCI-P3 is becoming the norm & saving a screen from a landfill can often be fixed to ‘good enough’ thru calibration), users will think it’s trash & unfinished.

NOPE. Every time I do it, I have to give them a lot of help and I end up becoming their technical support staff; my quota is already full, I've done my part.

Honestly, most people just use their computer for documents and the web. If they have their browser of choice, Libreoffice or equivalent document suite, and whatever file manager comes with the window manager they're using, so long as they've used a computer at some point in the last couple of decades they'll be set.

I feel like the techy people oversell Linux because they don't know how not to be a power user. We tend to teach things the way we do them, and that's not good for beginners to learn things that way.

I try to make Linux sound boring. I establish that it will do everything that someone currently does, and show them that it will be in-support on their computer longer than Windows 10 will be, and it usually works out.

Get someone logged into Chrome, show them how to install Spotify so they can see that it is easy (and doesn't require the command line if they don't want it to), and get any other basics like messengers and cloud storage stuff worked out, and most people will be sold.

Getting into the weeds about how how FOSS is superior, or how you can customize everything can come later. Let a person actually get comfortable using Linux before you try to upsell the libre movement. That shit definitely scares people off.

Most importantly, remember that software freedom includes the freedom to use proprietary software. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. People will use Chrome, Discord, Spotify, and other closed source tools, and we should be happy they can do so on an open source OS.

I wouldn't do this since I don't want to be even more tech support for people I know.

My mom has used windows for as long as she has had a computer and still doesn't know what the start button or the windows key are.

I've explained it millions of times.

I'm not signing up for more of that than we need.

Good luck but as someone who is techy, Linux drives me insane every time I use it. Yes, it's a skill issue. I think that's sort of the nature of the problem regarding Linux adoption.

I'm capable, a quick learner interested in learning, good at following step by step instructions, and am really good at teaching others once I've learned it.

I've been on and off Linux for at least 8 years now and I feel like I end up hating it more and more each time I work with it. I will say, all of them are hobby projects of things that I just want, or tried to replace something from Windows by using my server.

I'm sure if it was just basic web browsing it would be fine, but I inevitably want to do something so I look for how to do it, follow a guide or the documentation and inevitably 5 steps in something goes wrong. Like, I genuinely can't think of a single instance where I've been able to follow a step-by-step outside of the Steam Deck and have it actually work the first time.

That aside, usually the amount of networking that has to be done manually is what gets me, bonus points if you are double natted.

Docker has made things better but it's still a pain in the ass for me. I enjoy working with computers and software but more often than not I do not enjoy my time working with Linux and by the time I finally get something working I am just wishing I hadn't wasted all my time trying to get it working, and wishing that I didn't care so much about this. Cause if I didn't care I could happily live without home assistant and my server. But I do care, so I have to work on it.

It's genuinely frustrating. Something as simple as Stable Diffusion - literally a git clone command - something I've set up a dozen times on Windows installs, just will not work on my server because it decides something is wrong following the install.

This whole time running Linux there have only been 2 things that I rarely have problems with. The first is Plex, since I first installed it on a RasPi using DietPi I've had nothing but good, smooth experiences. Once in a while there would be a hiccup but it was straightforward enough. The most difficult Plex has ever been is on my recent server build with an NVIDIA card, just getting hardware transcoding to work (which it at least recognizes the GPU now so I think it is). Oh, and stupid fucking permissions. God I hate permissions.

The other has been my Steam Deck, where I've had no issues through and through, from modding to random installs.

Anyway, I'm ranting like this because I'm so frustrated with Linux's ease of use/access. Technology has gotten so much easier to use that it feels insanely archaic being forced to tell Linux every specific little thing to or not to do. What's more frustrating is when you are following the documentation and it never mentions what to do if ______ doesn't work, it just continues on.

So all told... As someone who is confident with technology and familiar with Linux, I just have a hard time believing that someone who can hardly use an iPhone will have an enjoyable experience trying to, say, watch Netflix on Linux. I'd like to believe it, maybe my experiences have me biased.

And before anyone comes at me, I hate and get frustrated with Windows too, but I use it because when I try and do something it works, usually in a quarter of the working time. Surprising considering it's Windows, but of all the projects I've tried to do on both Windows has a much higher success rate. Like almost 100%. Off the top of my head the only thing I couldn't get working was DizqueTV on a Windows-Plex server (which ended up being why I moved it to Linux). Funny enough, DizqueTV wouldn't work on my Linux install either because of my ISP.

FOSS takes your time, not your money.

Laymen are the greatest thing that can happen to Linux.

Stop telling me what to do. Your post is exactly what you are complaining of. Those with the curiosity and aptitude will gravitate to the tech that serves their needs. Usually on their own, regardless of what anybody else tells them. How do you think Linux came to dominate Internet infrastructure in the first place.

Go preach elsewhere.

I really don't understand why so many advocate for Linux, FOSS, and an overall open web while actively making Linux and other free software as complicated and "tech-y" as possible.

If Linux isn't growing, what's the point? If it remains stagnant, its getting closer to fading away. We've seen the impact of Linux becoming more mainstream and known to the general public through the Steam Deck, and it has done wonders for the platform. Why do people actively not want it to grow?

Helping it grow doesn't mean being annoying like Edge pop-ups, simply throwing out suggestions to try easy-to-use distros here and there. And let's be honest, the average internet user can use an easy distro like Ubuntu or Mint proficiently after 20-30 minutes of playing around with it. We need to make it seem accessible so that more people will actually be interested in the first place.

Really happy to see a post being made about this.

Sorry, but it is tech-y. Not out of reach by anybody who is interested in learning, but ask the average person to self sign their drivers (required for any Nvidea card if you want to game and don't turn on legacy bios). Or maybe you want the latest version of Spotify on Mint and therefore need to add flathub using the terminal. With help or research, sure, not hard concepts to grasp. Without help though, it'd probably be a dealbrealer.

And once you'ce done both of those I'd consider you 'tech-y'

Why does it need to grow? Seems fine the way it is now.

Are we usually being elitist? I mean, you could dig on the forums for people being toxic and looking down on "newbs", but you can find that in both Windows and MacOS places. Honestly, this post could be considered elitist, because you are saying that people should be using Linux rather than Windows or MacOS.

IMO the problem with most kinds of Linux evangelism is that some people push it too much. They say to people that they should use Linux and it's better for XYZ reasons. While usually true, it puts the person in a defensive state and a desire to prove you wrong. After all, Windows has been fine for their entire life, why should they switch to something new?

Personally, I think the better option would be to work on letting people know that Linux exists, and is rather user friendly. Make them know it's an option for them to fall back on if they need to. And then at some point they'll get frustrated by Windows, and think "maybe I should try that Linux thing". They'll be more willing to try it and work with it because it was their idea, and they want to prove to themselves that trying it was the correct move. Fundamentally people should want to use Linux, not feel made to use it because it's the correct decision.

easier to use

Is it? A lot of talk has gone into Windows only being "easy to use" because people are used to it... But isn't that not just what being "easy to use" means? I'm a Linux user, I find Linux easier to use than Windows or MacOS because I've used it more. A MacOS user would find MacOS easier than Windows or Linux. That's just how it works.

You could make reference to things like UI design, interface layout and so on, but nobody is coming to an OS from a vacuum. They will have prior notions of how things should work from the OSes that they're familiar with, and complying with those notions will make things seem "easier" to them.

main choices of professionals

Don't most professionals use software that is only available on Windows or Mac? Like Adobe stuff?

They don’t understand distros, just pick Linux Mint LTS Cinnamon unless they’re curious.

Strong agree. We argue about distros a lot and we hype it up to be much more important than it really is. Either install Mint with Cinnamon, * mumbles * with KDE or * mumbles * with Gnome. Show them screenshots and ask them which they like the look of. Let them know they can switch it easily if they wish.

1. copy down your windows product key

I think nowadays Windows product keys are linked to your Microsoft account? Not sure how that works with OEM keys though (which most people with legitimate keys will probably be using). I think a physical code with numbers hasn't been used for a while now.

4. use rufus (a website) to put the iso on a usb flash drive

Why Rufus and not Etcher? Genuinely curious, Etcher seems to be the most recommended one.

7. erase the storage and install

I don't know why this seems to be an uncommon sentiment but new users should be using a dual boot. Like, this is not the time to commit to 100% full time being a Linux user. If someone tries it and doesn't like it they should be able to go back to Windows. Or maybe they want to use Windows software or games? Or even are just afraid of the commitment.

I'd consider myself a hardcore Linux user, but I still have a Windows install. There's no reason to delete it unless you are very constrained on space.

If they don't like Linux then they'd have to go through the trouble of reinstalling and reconfiguring Windows, which is not something I'd wish on anyone.

it takes 15 minutes.

It'll take longer than 15 minutes. Not everyone has a high speed internet connection, USB drive, storage or CPU. And once the installer is complete, you'll probably have to browse forums and guides for that one piece of hardware that should work but doesn't. And then spend some time configuring and installing all the programs you want to use. It's certainly something you should budget a full afternoon to at least.

Hehe, I think it's more the Windows people who spread that urban legend. While I completely agree with you, I didn't learn anything new here 😉

As much as I want more people to use Linux and divorce from Microsoft, I don't want to be someone's tech support guy, I've done it as a teen and as a young adult; I never want to do it again. When my parents have trouble with their computer, they don't call me, especially since I live in a different timezone and it gets inconvenient... they take it to a technician to get it sorted. If they take a Linux computer to a technician, they will likely just install windows on it and call it a day.

More users usually ruins things, that’s how we ruined and lost the internet.

I do not believe, at all, that linux needs to grow. We don't need to appeal to every casual pc user, because for most of these people what they are using already works just fine for them - and if they don't already have the drive to learn about and try linux on their own, there's no reason to shove it in their faces.

use rufus (a website)

rufus isn't a website.

I haven't seen anyone scaring people away. All I see is people saying "try Linux" and others complaining that it's too much Linux encouragement. They want to stay with their windows. Not our fault. :)

I like a small Linux community so I'm fine. The more people who stay on windows, the more likely it is that Microsoft feels like they have enough users to leave the rest of us alone.

I gave my neighbour's teenager an old laptop pre-installed with Linux Mint LTS Cinnamon to study programming on. So at least I know his weed dealer is enjoying the Linux experience.

I like Linux, but it sucks to support it in a corporate environment, specifically when it comes to trying to help end-users with it.

There's so many distros and configurations, and the ones who call in with issues are the ones who probably shouldn't be using Linux because they barely know how to work a computer, it was just their well meaning family member who put them on it.

Don't tell them, just break in their home at night and install it. They'll call you in the morning. Probably to thank you. Probably.

Billions need to switch to linux to save the planet

Ah shit here we go again

Trying to do that

github.com/trytomakeyouprivate

You do have a point. Most of the issues I've ever had on any of my computers has been with windows. Linux just keeps on humming along. Every one of the hand me down laptops I seem to get because they are "too slow", gets wiped, Linux installed and they work great after.

I'm thinking of switching and will run mint off a live USB on my rig. Just need to find a new guide on setting up persistent data from the USB.

Im not particularly adverse, but gaming largely still keeps me a Windows main. I tried dual booting Ubuntu (I know it's not the best choice but it handles dual boot nicely,) but if I keep having to switch back to windows I just stay on windows

I got Linux mint and I'm shit at it, terminology and step by steps are lost on me. It definitely needs a significant time commitment.

I'm not elitist. I'm a weirdo who likes weird things. If we get a bunch of normies in here normying up the place I'll just end up having to switch to FreeBSD.

I try to preach GNU/Linux to anyone who will listen. GNU/Linux & GPG.

Only had one success on the former. My wife. Technically there is another but every time I see that guy I fix petty easy stuff that's obvious. Sure, I've been doing it a decade and a half but...WHY DOES NO ONE LISTEN? IT'LL BE THE END OF THE FUCKING WORLD IF YOU DON'T START NOW!

FUCK.

Just donate to The Linux Foundation.

Just tell em, "What if I told you theres an OS with no annoying ads popping on your screen 24/7?" -- "Yeah? Is that a modified Wi--" -- "Nope. Linux". And bam. :^)

I see this more as a thought experiment. You can't really tell other people what they should use. I can't also do that at my workplace. If someone comes to me for help fixing their PC I can of course tell them just use Linux, but most of the time I need to reinstall the OS it came with. The Linux culture is intrinsically elitist, that's just the way it is. That's not to mean that you need to be a jerk about it, I use Arch btw, use whatever fits your needs.

Some time ago I got a mini PC for my dad who was curious about the web and stuff and I haven't hat a shred of a doubt that it would be Linux. To satisfy my own curiosity, I used it as an excuse to do some distro hopping and tried a lot of distros to try and find a balance between ease of use (from a standpoint of an elderly person) and my own nerdyness. I ended up installing a KDE based distro because the UI can easily be customized, resized and simplified for his needs. But let's be honest, not anybody is willing to spend hours searching and trying different operating systems and tweaking and stuff. Also the web sucks nowadays for people that are not used to it, for example how should I explain all the stupid cookie stuff, or the ads in between articles. Come on just be nice to people.

Insert link to linus daily driver video

I've been using Linux for 30 years now, certified to teach it and everything... Here's your problem:

"Stop telling people it's 'tech-y'"

Compared to Windows or MacOS, yes, it is very techy.

"offer to help them install." - If they need your help to install it they absolutely have no business running Linux.

"They don't understand the concept of distros" - If they have no understanding of distros, they have no business running Linux.

Think of it like this... if they can't wrap their head around a distro, what's going to happen when you try explaining a package manager?

I get the evangelism, but Linux simply is not for everyone, that's why Apple invented iPads.

no one in my family or friend group is tech literate enough to follow most of those steps, let alone deal with all the tiny troubleshooting they're in for at every step.

Windows has fallen billions must use Android and IOS

I stopped having Linux discussions years ago. If people approach me and ask for my opinion I tell them to try Linux Mint and make backups before installation.

My own opinion, won't fit with post like this

Stop telling people it’s ‘tech-y’ or acting like you’re more advanced for using it, you are scaring away people

So lucky that OpenBSD never cared if anyone used the operating system or not

The operating system is for developers, to fit developers' need

That’s it, spread Linux to as many people as possible. The larger the marketshare, the better support we ALL get

the better support for single root partition... UNIX have a removable filesystem, you can use different partition for / and /usr and /usr/local and /var and /home but hardly any distro can offer that. They all use a single root partition for everything just like windows use a single C:. Spliting /home is just like spliting D:

quality is better than quantity... look at the current state of linux communities (and distros too!) make me switched to BSD

10 person knows how to code python or DOS' C (Turbo C, obsolete) might be better than 100 person that use linux like they would use windows (but think themselves smart)

And if everyone is going to use wine then you should use Windows instead. I think it is much more stable and secure to run windows apps natively

1. copy down your windows product key

can't drop windows entirely? h-

You know back in the day they used to sell Linux distributions on the shelf at software stores. I remember seeing a boxed copy of mandriva next to windows. Home computing used to be a hobby for some but that means there was commercial support at some point.

I do think that home users of "Linux" will need a commercial alternative that supports all their apps. ChromeOS looks like the current best alternative. If you can get people into chrome books, you're one step closer to getting them onto Linux.

I was just about to install Linux mint (once I free up space on my drive, that is)

In order for MS and Apple/ios to block people from booting linux on "their" machines, they came up with the secure-boot scheme. Commercial puppets and traitors of open free software rushed to be part of the scheme so all the rest of the linux distributions couldn't boot but their systems could.

Now we are accused of being elitists and not alarm new users of true garbage distributions?

If anyone is stuck trying to disable secure-boot and couldn't it is their own damn fault for buying garbage machines. Gigabyte (not Gigabit) has created some monstrosities of bios software that look like a video game and it is hard to count in how many places you have to disable the crap in order to boot open and free linux.

I agree with this but we also need the average user to become tech literate.

There's little reason to introduce linux to someone who doesn't understand basic concepts like "I can save this file in this folder and find it there in the future instead of putting everything on the desktop" and doesn't even want to learn.

This goes for everything not just Linux. Maybe instead of dumbing everything down completely (not saying things shouldn't be made simple enough but there's a point where you need to get people to get up their asses and actually learn something) maybe we should be teaching people the basics at school, in my IT class back in HS they taught about buses, drivers, some other shit even I can't remember, and then immediately jumped to how to use excel specifically. None of the information in the first part was at all useful to anyone in that class (none of us was even studying IT, we were mixed classes to become chemical and architecture (?) technicians) and in fact promptly forgotten as soon as IT lessons ended, if not earlier. What would have been useful is the basics of how to use it and how the part users actually interact with works.

Then, once the population is tech literate enough to not panic as soon as they see a sudden popup and mindlessly click "ok" without reading, that's when Linux (and honestly Windows and Mac too because the OS is irrelevant if the user is a moron) will be truly ready for everyone

I think GNU/Linux (What you're refering to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I've recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux.) is a great fit for non-technical people when they don’t have an established workflow on another OS. If their needs can’t easily be translated over, though, I think it’d turn users away.

id really like to use linux, but not before this is working. i dont understand how you linux people can live witout ahk.

I don't want a lot of tech illiterate people using Linux.

Not MS but IBM, created a front 13y ago called RedHat, financed it with consulting subcontracts installing RHEL,Fedora,Debian everywhere, to steer all Desktop/GUI development to depend on it, and when it all met its goals bought it to create its mass consumed system to compete with MS.

Very few attempt to maintain desktop functionality without systemd today, and upstreamers just quitely conformed to the "market'.

@jackpot @octopus_ink

Stop being elitist, spread Linux without systemd!

@jackpot

Offer family members or friends your help or copy and paste the below

how to install linux: 1) copy down your windows product key 2) backup your files to a harddrive 3) install the linux mint cinnamon iso from the linux mint website 4) use rufus (a website) to put the iso on a usb flash drive 5) go into bios 6) boot from the usb 7) erase the storage and install 8) celebrate. it takes 15 minutes.

it is not more secure for the average user. sure it can be hardened to a great degree but that takes proper knowledge of the underlying architecture. for the average user's ootb experience, Linux is the least secure option.