Masculinity in Crisis

The first act of violence that patriarchy demands >of males is not violence toward women. Instead >patriarchy demands of all males that they >engage in acts of psychic self-mutilation, that >they kill off the emotional parts of themselves. If >an individual is not successful in emotionally >crippling himself, he can count on patriarchal >men to enact rituals of power that will assault >his self-esteem

-bell hooks

Facts tho.

It's always the dudes who are only friends with other dudes that have the most issues.

More of a cultural thing than anything, but it's always good for dudes to have women as friends as well, women are just better at talking about some things. They don't have the same social hangups as a lot of men.

Shits better than it was, but it's still weird when people only have friends of their own gender.

It's such a touchy subject because feminism definitely came about as a response to toxic masculine behaviors that have been around and are still with us. And while capitalism/toxic masculinity is to blame for most of men's mental health problems, at the same time, I think there's still been something of an overreach with feminism and there's actually some aspects of Western life where women are at a definite advantage, namely in the Court systems when dealing with divorce and custody issues. Men and women in these spaces are not treated equally and it's just accepted as "That's how it is," because we're ok with going off of outdated ideas in that space.

Having said all that, I still don't think it's fair to blame feminism for men's mental health issues, it's more just a societal thing that men in general are really considered expendable and left to fend for themselves on most of their problems. While I think it's gotten better over the years and it's more acceptable to at least talk about some things, there's still just a general apathetic attitude towards men's mental health issues. Men/Fathers will often be relied on by everybody else in the family for all sorts of things, but who does Dad have to turn to when he has problems? Mothers are often placed on a pedestal, and that's great for them, fathers though are just kind of... "Oh, it's you."

I feel like trying to frame men's mental health issues as a problem caused exclusively by "the patriarchy and capitalism" seems like it's trying to wash the rest of society of their own personal responsibility to contribute to making the world a better place for everyone. Patriarchy and Capitalism are just tools of the greater power structure of society, which we all have a hand in forming and perpetuating.

And let's not pretend that the feminist movement's tendency to pump out and empower misandrists and misandrist thinking isn't going to have a negative impact men's mental health, especially if we continue to hold feminism as a scared cow beyond reproach or criticism. And let's not pretend the fact that we have the explicitly female coded "feminism" that opposes the explicitly coded "patriarchy" isn't going to give people who don't have a lot of time to philosophise an inherently combative view of the feminism.

It's hard to buy into the whole "actually femismim is for anyone who wants equality" shtick when you're working exhaustive jobs most your life and then you get exposed to the kind of feminist who says men might as well go extinct because they have sperm banks now.

Eh, I think posts like this missing the point - feminism has a lot of shades. Some of which are actively harmful to mens mental health, some of which are very supportive.

If it's about everyone having the same rights regardless of gender - I think we're all in favour. If it's about elevating one gender over another to address historical injustice, then I think that's where points of contention lie.

Let's ask the real question - does it have to be a zero sum game? Can we have the former without the latter? Surely we can.

Men are the problem with men's health.

As a man, the number of times I've been told, by other men, to "man up" when I'm struggling, is too damn high.

Then you got the men hating feminists that make things more complicated.

No, no, you don't get it, it's totally women having rights that's the source of all male problems

Some domestic violence centre near me got closed down because feminists kept protesting its existence.

Feminists got things to answer for.

Men aren't always the issue. Men need male places, women don't like that. Men can be victims, women don't like that. What I seen in the world men are a lot more sympathetic to mens issue. Women just brush it off and say all mens issues are due to men and that really women are the victims.

You did it to yourself = we don't have to help or take responsibility

I've seen too many feminist groups cheering male suicides to claim that they wouldn't do that

Jeeze yeah you solved it 👎

What is demanded of us is same or more than in non-feminist countries, and what we get back is less. Passed over for jobs (entire sectors that used to be open for everyone), much lower priority in healthcare (including psychiatric) and our rights in front of a court are now nearly non-existant, since a feminist parliament writes laws for feminist courts.

Don't be like Sweden. Reject feminism

Feminism is an aggression against men. The notion that it would save you from having to be a guy is a lie. You're still a guy. Just worth less.