1年前

Do you daily drive Wayland, if so since when, if not when will you?

I've been on Wayland for the past two years exclusively (Nvidia).

I thought it was okay for the most part but then I had to switch to an X session recently. The experience felt about the same. Out of curiosity, I played a couple of games and realized they worked much better. Steam doesn't go nuts either.

Made me think maybe people aren't actually adopting it that aggressively despite the constant coverage in the community. And that maybe I should just go back.

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I’ll adopt it when it’s ready.
- For NVIDIA users, that's the right answer. For AMD users, it's already ready. No problems here (6700xt)
  
  Yeah, it was ready for my old AMD machine. My new Nvidia box...nah.
  But since I've switched to XFCE, I don't need to worry so much about new-fangled things like Wayland...for now.
  
  It's not just about hardware compatibility. It has to be compatible with existing workflows, and it's currently very limiting.
  
  On nvidia, there are still too many edge cases involving Wayland that are just crippled. Orca slicer doesn't work for me for example, you are completely missing any of the 3d accelerated graphics in there.
  On the other hand, the AMD 7x00 series have different kind of bugs, with ring0 errors leading to full resets.
  I think once nvidia drivers are squared out (the proprietary ones) it will be smooth sailing.
- The first and the best answer

Yes. I've used X11 for far too long to have any rose tinted glasses for the piece of fucking broken shit it always was. a LOT of people don't realize how many hacks, workarounds and sheer tears and duct tape goes into making the piece of shit render the smallest line on the screen.
That's also why Phoronix comment section neckbeards are so infuriating for me. They talk like X.Org works like at all.
- That’s because their mid-2000’s setup with single 1024x768 screen works just fine with compositing disabled, 24bit color depth via VGA connector.
  I had to switch to Wayland the moment I tried to run simple 4K@60 on my old RX570, and Xorg was just refusing to set the mode, or produced some colorful vomit garbage when forced to do so, no matter what. And Wayland (just like Windows) simply worked.
  Was it perfectly ready back then? Heck no. Is it ready now? Maybe not for everyone, but it’s getting there and time is telling us that the missing parts on Wayland side are fixable.
  Criticism is viable to some degree, though. Because from the very beginning there were certain assumptions made, and creators of the base protocol didn’t care about real world use on desktop as much as they cared about the security model, it takes a lot of time to solve some of those. The development is slow and there are always some gaps here and there, but I watch it long enough (17 years) to know that to some degree it is like that with the entire ecosystem, let alone Xorg that no programmer wants to touch anymore for anything but simple bugfix or security patching.

Full wayland all the time for probably 2 years now
- Yeah, me too. Whenever Fedora made the move to Wayland by default for Gnome.

When some crappy vendors (ahem, Zoom) bother to get screen sharing working on Wayland.
Until then I'm stuck on xorg at work, but it's Wayland all the way at home... not by explicit choice, just the distro default.

Since I switched to AMD about a month ago. Literally every naggling issue I had with NVidia is gone. Only complaint is that I didn't switch sooner.

Why I'm not using it:
worse performance (Nvidia)
couldn't get screen sharing and recording to work
unfinished or abandoned alternatives to xorg tools (swhkd for example)
Made me think maybe people aren't actually adopting it that aggressively despite the constant coverage in the community.
Take the community with a grain of salt; It's made up of the same type of people that say Arch is a stable distro that never has any issues.
Some distros are pushing it aggressively (Fedora for example), so use them as a more accurate gauge. If Fedora doesn't accept the proposal to start phasing out xorg, you can know for sure it doesn't have the conversion rates they're hoping for.
- I think the Xorg vs Wayland situation is not too dissimilar to that of Windows vs Linux. Lots of people are waiting for all of their games/software work (just as well or better) on Linux before switching. I believe that in most cases, switching to Linux requires that a person goes out of their way to either find alternatives to the software they use or altogether change the way they use their computer. It's a hard sell for people who only use their computer to get their work done, and that's why it is almost exclusively developers, tech-curious, idealists, government workers, and grandparents who switch to Linux (thanks to a family member who falls into any subset of the former categories). It may require another generation (of people) for X11 to be fully deprecated, because even amongst Linux users there are those who are not interested in changing their established workflow.
  I do think it's unreasonable to expect everything to work the same when a major component is being replaced. Some applications that are built with X11 in mind will never be ported/adapted to work on Wayland. It's likely that for some things, no alternatives are ever going to exist.
  Good news is that we humans are complex adaptive systems! Technology is always changing - that's just the way of it. Sometimes that will lead to perceived loss of functionality, reduction in quality, or impeded workflow in the name of security, resource efficiency, moral/political reasons, or other considerations. Hopefully we can learn to accept such change, because that'll be a virtue in times to come.
  (This isn't to say that it's acceptable for userspace to be suddenly broken because contributors thought of a more elegant way to write underlying software. Luckily, X11 isn't being deprecated anytime soon for just this reason.)
  Ok I'm done rambling.

Started my Linux journey with Wayland 1.5 years ago and haven't used X11 at all.
- Oh, you've been missing out on a lot of "fun" 😄

I mainly use Wayland(nvidia) and have been using it for the last couple of years. Only switch to X11 when there is a game that absolutely won’t work with Wayland.
As I see it both display servers are ass.
X11 just being old and crusty, maintainers don’t really wanna deal with it. Vsync in general has problems so you usually just turn it off in hope of your software running fast enough(or you could lock fps lower than display hz) so you won’t get screen tearing.
Wayland being new and has active development is great but now we have a very opinionated dev team. It took until Valve came along for them to actually listen to complaints, I guess if Valve is knocking at your door you would answer.
Some days I’m pretty close to going back to Windows, then I remember how ass windows is and I just deal with it. And for anyone saying “just buy AMD” I had a AMD card before this and I couldn’t even use Linux, it would just constantly crash.
- Maintainers don’t want to support it? Because the code is shit and they developed a new product Wayland. I mean when the people who develop it think the code is unmaintainable.
- I'm using Wayland on my AMD laptop (with integrated Vega graphics). I had zero problems with this setup.

When XFCE supports it.
- Still won't be able to stick i3 in xfce because of how Wayland is designed

Every day on all my computers. No interest in going back to X11, things work better on wayland, multimonitor doesn't shit itself randomly anymore.

Last week I did an install of Debian 12 on a little NUC7CJYH to use for web browsing and ssh sessions into work and ended up with wayland by default. Seems to work great.
From what I have experienced, it goes great with intel integrated graphics, great with a radeon card and can be made to work with Nvidia if you are lucky or up for a fight.
- My experience with Nvidia had been mostly seamless (although, laptops could be performing worse) up until recently when everything started bursting into flames. Electron applications are nuts, steam store doesn't even render, multiple game broke down fully. I can't even find any other use reports.

I've got three hard problems preventing me from using Wayland (sway/wlroots) right now:
No global shortcuts for applications, especially legacy applications; I need teamspeak3 to be able to read my PTT keys in any application. Yes I know that could be used to keylog (the default should be off) but let me make that decision.
Button to pixel latency is significantly worse. I don't need V-Sync in the terminal or Emacs. Let me use immediate presentation in those applications.
VRR is weird. I'd love if desktop apps were V-sync'd via VRR but the way it currently works is that apps make the display go down to 48Hz (because they don't refresh) but the refresh rate never goes up when typing; further exacerbating button to pixel delay.
- There's a portal for Global Shortcuts: https://flatpak.github.io/xdg-desktop-portal/docs/doc-org.freedesktop.portal.GlobalShortcuts.html
  KDE and Hyprland already implement it, and COSMIC seems likely to
  On the app side, if we can get the major toolkits to adopt it, then hopefully that covers most actively-maintained apps (but it's unlikely to cover legacy apps): https://github.com/electron/electron/issues/38288
  
  If I can get the portal to just forward every keypress (or a configurable subset) to an xwayland window, that'd work for me. (I am aware of the security implications.)

I’ve been daily driving Hyprland for almost a year now I think, my only complaint is that some of my electron apps act out a little bit (Discord won’t open links, etc). I don’t game as heavily as I used to, but I regularly am running Overwatch 2 around 200 FPS with no issues, and Bauldur’s Gate 3 is super smooth as well.

I switched to sway from i3 about 5 years ago. It's easier to configure (no /etc/X11 nonsense) and it fixed my screen tearing issue. I'm not much of a gamer, so can't comment on that. Supertuxkart and browser games work fine.
- Exact same. Sway's 1.0 release was March of 2019, and it did everything I needed.
  Even playing games on my desktop, Xwayland worked fine for me.
- Is Sway like a Wayland equivalent of i3? That's the only thing really keeping me on X
  
  Yes, sway presents itself as a drop-in replacement for i3 (just built on top of wayland instead of xorg).
  I've used it on a Thinkpad laptop for close to 4 years, and on my desktop for the past 3.
  The only problems I've encountered are some apps not being Wayland-compatible; xwayland makes the rendering work for those but then things like sharing a window or the entire screen don't always work. Notably, Discord's sharing doesn't work, but I can use OBS to record any entire screen since [the OBS devs] put in the work to properly support Wayland.

No. I'll use it when it's stable enough for Debian to merge it.
Possibly in 5 years?

I will daily drive wayland once sway fixes all their compatibility bugs with i3 and once polybar works on wayland as well.
- I think you meant sway, i3 is a window manager written for X11.
  
  ?
  I said: "I will daily drive wayland once sway fixes their compatibility bugs with i3" That is I am not using wayland at the moment and I'm using i3 (x11) due to bugs in sway.
  Sway is the wayland window manager that is a "drop in" replacement of i3. I can't use it right now because it has several bugs that prevent me from using it.
- I'm using sway for approx. 2 years now and am very happy with it as drop in replacement for i3. What bugs are you referring to?
  For bars, there are swaybar and waybar that run very smoothly. It's not 100 % polybar but with waybar you can get kind of close.
  
  https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/8002
  https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/8001
  https://github.com/swaywm/sway/issues/8000
  Also this issue which affects xfce apps in wayland:
  https://gitlab.xfce.org/xfce/thunar/-/issues/1304
  I also need to find a way to do "window devour" in sway.
  I also tried Hyprland and it was a total nope for me, I wasted my time reading the wiki pinning workspaces to certain monitors only for hyprland to tell me that shit was deprecated. I also found that I can't move a floating window between displays in hyprland, as the move left/right commands move the floating window to the left or right of the display and don't actually move it left or right, that means the window gets stuck in the left or right side of the display when trying to move it into the next.
  edit: And my polybar is a long config for multiple displays as well that has several features I worked on and I really don't wanna bother migrating to another bar:
  https://imgur.com/2GXp2L6.png
  I have indicators of cpu usage (which when click change the cpu scheduler), mem, gpu, etc, It also prints the names of the windows in the scratchpad which is the Xfce4-terminal Mate-calc in this case, the current workspace, the window class name and instance of the window with focus, the currently playing music track with playerctl, the volume in decibels, the current network speed, etc.

Tried Wayland about 5 years ago to see what all the hype was about, with Nvidia proprietary drivers, got a black screen. Could never get beyond that. Went back to xorg.
Tried about 3 or 4 years ago, with amdgpu drivers, no black screen this time but chrome would not work and a few other programs didn't work right or at all. There may have been special builds or wrappers to work around some of those issues but I had no interest in dealing with that at the time, so I went back to xorg.
Have not felt motivated to try again as I haven't had any issues with xorg. I'm using Nvidia drivers at the moment. I also heavily use turbovnc server with virtual gl and not sure how (or if) that'd work in combination with Wayland.
I haven't had to even think about the fact I'm using xorg or screw around with the configuration in like 10 or 15 years. It just works, for me and my setup, anyway.

When I have to. Either when Wayland does something that I can't do with X11, or X stops being supported.

I've used it for about a year on a laptop with an 8th gen i7 and Intel graphics. It works well there.

I switched my laptop to Wayland about three years ago. AMD graphics, normal DPI 60Hz screen, doesn't really do more than run a web browser.
My gaming desktop needed more of those troublesome edge cases hammered out - freesync in xwayland, app DPI scaling in xwayland, etc. I only switched it last year.

I don't know lol. I running Manjaro right now, not a clue if it's x or wayland
- More people should be like you.
  
  The problem is for me stuff just works under Wayland. Multi finger gestures and the like. When I have to boot to x11 always a shock it’s not there.

I'll try again once Nvidia's 555 series drivers are released which should support explicit sync. Right now it's too unstable under Wayland even though I gave it a shot once KDE Plasma 6 released.

Yes, on my laptop where it works well and it allows for nice fractional scaling.
It works on my desktop too but I can't stand vsync while playing CS so it's Xorg for now.

ye. i've been using wayland since forever.
started on hyprland, and then moved to sway, but it's been an almost perfect experience for me
sometimes i have to install a different version of a package or smth, but otherwise everything works fine.
- Why did you switch from hyprland to sway?
  I have no experience with both, but to my knowledge they are similar, but hyprland is aheads of wlroots
  
  they are very similar. my only problem with hyprland was that the mouse is still required for some things, and it's a bit annoying having to switch back and forth.
  on sway, everything can be done by keyboard. i still use the mouse a lot, but there's less switching in the middle of tasks.
  it's a little difference, but it was worth it for me.
  there's also the drama about some people being transphobic (i think?) in the hyprland discord, but i try not to pay too much attention to that.
  hyprland accomplishes it's goal of being pretty (and i got some really cool screenshots), but sway is pure functionality, and it's damn good at it.

I use sway and the only issue I have had is screen recording.

I've been using Wayland for 2 years. It was enabled by default when I installed openSUSE Tumbleweed with Gnome.

Daily drove wayland back in November when I finally built my new desktop and installed Nobara. It's the default and it juat worked out of the box. Have always been a windows user until now.
Games workost of the time. Good enough for me. Full team Red build inside the case.

Still holding out for desktop streaming via SteamLink to work on Wayland. I use it almost nightly to mirror my screen to my phone so I can watch what's on my PC while cooking dinner via my phone.
- I should check that out. Can you just stream any application to your phone?
  
  It's essentially just a remote desktop app, so yeah kinda. Depending on your screen resolution it'll be either be more or less annoying to click on smaller UI elements, but it's certainly possible.
  I keep my Bluetooth headphones connected to the PC, and there's maybe a split second delay. Otherwise it's perfect, because you can still navigate your PC with the touch screen as a mouse, and it even nicely supports my 3 monitors at once.

Not yet. Biggest dealbreaker for me is screen sharing not working in Slack, which I need for work. Once that’s no longer an issue I will be more inclined to make the move. Given that plasma is becoming the default choice for distros, I hope Slack devs will make this a priority.
What I look forward the most with Wayland is actual support for fractional scaling. I think fractional scaling is required for a pleasant experience when using high dpi monitors, but Slack screen sharing has higher priority for me.
- I actually had to switch to Wayland to be able to stream with audio on Discord.
  
  WHAT! might I ask if you need any special version of discord? Or does audio sharing just-work on wayland

3 or 4 years, including on Nvidia machines. I'll admit it took fiddling to get working awhile ago. Nowadays I use my desktops AMD iGPU as the main display driver and offload the rendering to the Nvidia card for intense programs or games, best of both worlds.

When they port FVWM.

I use it on my Surface Pro 8 with PopOS as Xorg doesn't work properly

I've used Plasma on Wayland since 5.24, and Wayland-based tiling window managers before that. No complaints here. There have been some hiccups occasionally, but it's still leaps and bounds ahead of anything X11 could offer, at its best

Couple of years since I switched and I rarely run into any issues with my all-AMD build

Sway for a little over a year now (on an AMD gpu). I switched for mixed refresh rate support and VRR. VRR requires a workaround in sway but works better in others, like hyprland, however I like sway's tiling better so I stuck with it. Also the absence of tearing in anything, ever, is worth it to me. I have two vertical displays and it was really hit or miss on X11. Sometimes GPU acceleration would just decide not to work in browsers and I'd have to restart them because smooth scrolling would turn into a stop-motion film. That's never happened since switching to sway.
EDIT: I used i3 before

No.
When it's a drop-in replacement for X.

Been daily driving sway for over 5 years now. There were a few problems along the way. I used to have JWM and then XFCE as a back up in case wayland fails. I really only need to go into them when there's a need for screen sharing. But then, I mostly live in terminal and browser. Low graphic games I play seems okay. The most demanding one I played is probably Starcraft 2 and it plays well even on my crappy 7 years old laptop with intel graphics.

I daily drive Linux Mint, which has only recently just now launched experimental beta Wayland support. I've been on X11 this whole time and it's been surprisingly good.
I'll adopt Wayland when Mint does, I'm confident by then it'll be good and ready.
I do have a little tablet that runs Fedora Gnome, it runs Wayland. It's okay, though trying to get the digital pen to work properly is a problem because a lot of the advice out there is written with X in mind. But.
- I'm confident by then it'll be good and ready.
  Depends. Cinnamon Desktop is not a huge project, so yes it may be more stable because of how Mint releases stuff, but also it is not GNOME, KDE, COSMIC, or one of the wayland-only windowmanagers, so it may be less complete.

Zero issues for me. Been daily driving it for years. Play Steam games regularly, but have not tried switching to X. Performance on Windows is MUCH better with my 1080ti playing D4, but I'm prefectly content with preformance on Linux and don't want to keep switching.

Interested to hear you use it with Nvidia - I was led to understand it didn't play well with Nvidia.
I'm going to give it a try and see how it goes with my card.
- I can only speak for the desktop, not laptops, when I say it works perfectly on Gnome and KDE and even Hyprland which doesn't even officially support Nvidia hardware. That said, for the first time in two years I started having big issues with a few games (though, I don't play a large number of games so take this with a grain of salt). Right now, I have an xorg session on the side to play those games. Although, I'm starting to notice it's missing some things from Wayland that I've gotten accustomed to.
  Wayland is expected to get much, much better when the 555 drivers drop explicit support in May and when proton enables the wine wayland drivers.

I can't use Wayland until this xwayland Nvidia bug is fixed, which is a shame because I think that's the last thing holding Nvidia users back. I tried the new Plasma 6 recently and for the most part it was great until I tried gaming and hit that bug. I tried different older and newer beta driver versions but it was more or less the same bug.
- Seconding this. XWayland is literally unusable with my 3060 Ti, while I've been having very few problems with X11. Hopefully explicit sync support is added before Fedora 40 drops

Yeah I’m holding out for xscreensaver support

Cinnamon user here. Would love to try it when they get keyboard layouts figured out.

I have been running wayland with sway for around 6-10 months (I forget when I switched). I have a 4-monitor setup and hated the default workspace management but swaysome convinced me to switch. I heard a lot of stuff about how manual tiling is bad but I actually don't mind it and kind of prefer it to automatic tiling from AwesomeWM which I used before sway, .

Yes, on fedora for 2 years. Using integrated amd

Yes, for over a year now (since early December 2022, don't remember the exact date).
My experiences with it seem to constantly be different than that of most users, because Wayland was a direct upgrade for me - I couldn't play games properly on X11 at all because they would stutter and freeze really badly even when Vsync was disabled and the game reported to be running at 60 FPS, but Wayland fixed the issue altogether for me.
...Granted, I'm on an AMD card. If I was on Nvidia it'd probably be another story entirely. :x

I wanted to love Wayland but the fact is half of the apps I use are either too small in the UI or too blurry when scaled up. Until that’s fixed I’m staying on x11 begrudgingly.
- I have these exact same issues with wayland on KDE.
  
  Yep running kubuntu and I’m a xorg boi for a while still

I have used it for almost 3 years, no serious issues here.

I have very recently after rallying against it for years. It seems like there has been a concentrated effort lately to get it working really well, which I only have to say "about damn time" after they've been advocating it for over a decade and it still was a buggy pile of garbage at that point. Plasma seems to have done a load of work getting Wayland stable lately, and with the latest Plasma6, I'm happy with it. There's some weirdness here and there but I can handle a little bit of problems vs. my entire system slowing to a crawl and then crashing after a day or two reliably when running Wayland vs. Xorg which ran fine even semi-recently.

I've been using it on Ubuntu 22.04 for almost 2 years. It started off rocky, with frequent restarts needed, maybe every week or two. It's been pretty solid, though I did give up on using it for screen sharing and captures, which is unfortunate timing in today's WFH world.

As soon as it works. A recent update included Plasma 6.0.2 (on NixOS unstable/24.05) which apparently defaults to wayland, but it just exits to login right away. I'm not in a mood to tinker, so for now I plan to simply wait for things to Just Work. When I select "wayland" and things work and look the same (or better) is when I'm happy to rid myself of the horror that is X11, because as horrible as X11 is, it simply isn't giving me trouble these days - my system is stable and I like keeping it that way.
Edit: perhaps important to mention that I'm using a GTX 1070.
Edit 2: I realise that I'm sort of contradicting myself with how I worded the above. I don't mean to imply that I'm not willing to sacrifice anything to embrace Wayland; just that as it stands I don't think the benefits of Wayland outweighs my ability to use this computer the way I need to.
- I don't think you will ever be able to use Wayland on Nvidia without enabling modesetting which sounds like you haven't.
  
  Thanks for the suggestion. sudo cat /sys/module/nvidia_drm/parameters/modeset indeed prints N, so I'll try adding that to my system config.
  
  I finally got around to restarting my system after adding hardware.nvidia.modesetting.enable = true; to my NixOS config and it works perfectly! Thank you for the suggestion. I likely wouldn't have figured that out on my own any time soon.

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