Just going to preface this by saying yes please vote for Biden. If nothing else he is not openly fascist and he will not himself actively work to forward queer genocide and the removal of women's rights. Please vote for him. If you're not going to take any measures to change this system and have resigned yourself to existing within it, do one good thing for women and minorities.
If you think it's fine for a totalitarian fascist state to become established and to mass murder queer people, don't even fucking bother responding to me. If you're saying "don't vote and also don't revolutionize. Just let trans people and women fucking die" then fuck off. You're not even worth engaging with. If fascism takes over and my friends, my family, my loved ones and my community are mass murdered I'll remember how you watched it happen and did literally nothing. Our blood will be on your hands.
I'm not engaging further in this thread.
It's amazing how passive and tolerant the working class has become of the state. If half the energy that was devoted to arguing about why the system sucks but can't be changed was instead put into organizing and committing to revolutionary action... Actual real-world change might have already happened.
Like, what's the line for people? They took away women's bodily autonomy. What about if they took away women's right to work? What if they did away with the 40-hour work week? What if they made it so only land owning whites could vote again? Like, where is the line that people will respond by actually trying to change the system?
"The system is broken, but I'm not here to talk about why we should materially do anything to change that" like what kind of argument is that? Are you just going to watch as fascism literally takes over and then try and revolutionize? If Trump wins, are you then going to try and change the system? After the guy who's definitely a-ok using the military on civilians takes over?
Is this just what it's going to be forever? Forever arguing for the lesser of two evils, the person who will still cause human suffering but not as much as the other guy? Why are so many people seemingly resigned to this status quo? "It sucks but here we are," like what?? Even when revolutionary thought is put forward, people say that it would never work, as though no revolution in history has ever worked or achieved any of its aims. Which is just wrong. Neo liberal propaganda has got yall so bad that you genuinely believe that Western capitalist democracy is the only possible way for society to exist and that any and all attempts to change it are impossible.
84I don't think many people are saying that Biden is the same as Trump or just as bad as Trump. I think most progressives, for instance, would agree that Biden is better than Trump, it's just that that's such a low bar. I mean, are liberals really surprised that people aren't all that impressed with a president whose main selling point is that he's not as bad as the only alternative? Now, I get that liberals don't see it that way, I understand that liberals, apparently, are really very happy with Joe Biden, but for the rest of us he is only the least bad option.
49The actual argument is that we can do a lot better, but disingenuous political hacks shriek "THAT MEANS YOU THINK BOTH ARE THE EXACT SAME!!!1" and so we're stuck with voting "not the other guy" for the rest of our lives as the wealth gap keeps widening, everything gets less affordable, the climate is still worsening, and nothing improves in any meaningful capacity.
43Gawd. Do we have to get one of these braindead posts every damn day? You think it's convincing anyone?
Biden's concerns aren't people choosing Trump. Those voters are fixed and committed. Biden has to worry about Democratic voters getting so frustrated with the system that they check out. These posts are practically (if not actually) designed to do exactly that.
Democrats listen up! Bitching at voters is not an effective campaign strategy! Learn something from Hillary or suffer the same fate!
43Brandon 2024, warts and all. Fuck the republican traitor filth.
33The lesser of two evils is still evil. This is just a plain statement of fact. Like sure, I'd rather eat a turd sandwich than be immersed and drowned in shit, but that doesn't make the turd in the sandwich any less of a piece of shit.
Voters have the right to call a turd a piece of shit, even if that's their least bad option. And if certain politicians don't like being called out for doing shitty things, they can also you know, stop doing shitty things.
Conversely, politicians who are not for the "drown people in shit" policy, don't get a free pass for increasing the amount of turds in sandwiches.
PS . I'm not an American and don't vote in your country's elections.
PS2. Sorry for all the shit analogies.
32A lot of demonstration here of people who think politics and democracy is strictly voting, and approximately about once every four years.
The self-reports in these threads are wild.
25I was gonna call out the "grammar" one, since a person's grammar really isn't all that big a deal... Then I remembered reading one of his tweets a few days ago. It was somewhere around 200 words, all caps, and zero punctuation.
I can't. I can't do four more years of this guy's fucking tweets. Guys. Please.
22You know, usually when I read “both sides are the same”, it’s a blue conservative like you trying to make people critical of the Democratic party seem unreasonable.
Both sides are capitalist and conservative, but there are differences for sure. Dont you want more differences?
If you wanna really shut up those people bitchhing from the sidelines, the best way to do so is to put them in the game! Force them to show us how to do things since it’s so easy and they have it figured out.
Switching away from first past the post voting allows people to vote for who represents them best while still counting their vote against those they dont want to win. Just search for videos on FPTP voting if you want an explanation on how and why the spoiler effect exists.
Electoral reform is possible in each individual state (for now), we dont need federal reform! Maine and Alaska have already passed electoral reform.
Republicans are moving to make alternative electoral systems illegal in their states. Republicans LOVE first past the post voting. Just sbsolutely adore it. Why would you want to use the same voting system republicans want?
So what’s the hold up blue states?
Consider starting a campaign to change how we vote in your own state! Force our representatives to compete with fresh outside ideas. We deserve the best representation, not excuses.
17ITT: “no one is making <argument x>, and everyone is making <argument y>; OP <agrees/disagrees> with me and therefore that makes OP <position z>”
nearly everyone here needs to pause, look around, and recognize that there is tremendous diversity to people and their worldviews. if you engage with every issue as a monolith, you become the monolith. but if you engage with people as what they are, individuals, you might actually get something done.
15This meme is a consequence of the duopoly system.. it's a political cartel with no real choice
15All it would take is for Biden to change his actions when it comes to Israel and Trump would lose.
Instead millions are supposed to swallow their principles and vote for somebody who is openly and activelly supporting a new Holocaust.
Most Americans now think Israel's actions are wrong and yet there is Biden sending 2000lb (that the US itself doesn't use because of their extreme danger for civilians) to Israel.
Biden is doing the kind of thing one would expect from Putin.
13Hey it's me your average voter. Over the last four years I've recognized and processed 239 salient points that should inform my choice of president. However. I can only hold two or three ideas in my mind at once and I have no concept of the past or future. Jingle some "border invasion" or "Israel committing genocide" keys in front of me and I'll forget everything else.
12Work to end the two-party duopoly and I might start to believe it matters that Democrats aren't as bad as Trump.
EDIT: So demanding support for actual democratic reforms from "democrats" is beyond the pale now? If the Republicans are so different from Democrats, how come they're the only party Dems are willing to consider governing with?
9You wanna know Trump's real power? Look at the size of all of those issues on his side. They are all the same fucking size. "Jan 6th" is the same size as "grammer" but they get lumped together. Next week a new piece of bullshit gets thrown on and further distorts the magnitude of an issue like insurrection.
9Both sides are genocide enablers and should be trialed at The Hague, yes.
9We have a corporate media that profits off their "both sides" narratives. Then we go around and mocked people for believing the lies those at the top feed us which is bullshit.
We live in a society of specializations where we rely on each other. If oncology doctors privately laughed at their patients for buying snake oil they sold, maybe we should blame oncology and not the patients who frankly have no way to treat cancer themselves.
8I don’t understand why people bother with this crap on here. It’s exhausting and pointless. Anyone that is going to vote and isn’t casting a ballot for Biden is either a MAGA idiot or has the mental acuity of an inbred toddler. They both share a lack of mental depth that is required to process anything of substance.
7Zerked it zilly style to this post, and I really felt it in my political self-satisfaction.
No but seriously where do I find actual good and nuanced political discussion that's either about theory or about like, capital hill politics, or the machinations and nuances of the US political system? The specifics of legislature, maybe, more specific pros and cons to each candidacy, possible alternatives, shit like that? Cause it's obviously not here, and not on lemmy generally. The only conversations I am doomed to find here are the same leftist-liberal circlejerk sparring, ad nauseam, and it's really draining me. Mostly because of how obviously vapid, self-serving, and totally useless it is. Does there exist a holy land of good political discourse, or is this just kinda, where we are now?
7Bides and Trump are 4 years apart.
Im just gonna let this sit here.
6If you want the US to act in line with the Paris agreement, if you want a humane healthcare system, if you want effective action against police violence, if you want the US to stop supporting a possible genocide, it doesn’t matter what you vote next election.
This is just a fact, you can do with this fact whatever you want, vote for the least bad option or stay home, but that doesn’t change this truth.
3I agree that voting for Biden this election is important for everyone, but these are just two recent examples of a long and problematic career. He has his own brand of white supremacist comments and legislation under his belt, he spent his entire career being cheerleader and enabler of making the people you want to vote for him poorer so some rich dudes can get richer. You have to actually acknowledge and listen to people if you want to change their minds, straw men are just making them less likely to vote for Biden. It makes this position look ill informed and/or disingenuous.
3OP's username is relevant
3These types of posts always strike me as desperate. I know no one and I mean no one that will switch from voting for Biden to voting for Trump just because he's old and enables Israel's genocide. And if they are willing to switch, you're probably talking about mid-stage dementia boomers that are easily manipulated either way. Why do you have to get so offended that people talk shit about Biden? People didn't vote for him cause they liked him. Your memes aren't going to make people like Biden more, but they'll definitely remind us that there are quite a few pathetic Democrats out there.
2They are both corrupted criminals that shouldn't be in charge of anything, you are not supposed to support neither
2Dang it. I'm not as good at it as Trump. I should have included more so you wouldn't notice.
1He also moved the American embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem which made the Israelis happy as it seemed to give America's blessings to the land Israel occupied in the 1967 war
1Yep it's the same old bullshit from out-of-touch sub-22-year-old revolutionaries who just so happen to intersect the Venn diagram with right-wing wedge-driving astroturfers, conveniently. They tend to stay quiet for 3-4 years, do nothing, then complain loudly about how imperfect the inevitable candidate is, then threaten to do something utterly meaningless and backfiring to their own end-goals like not voting or voting 3rd-party.
Tack on another on that list: Ukraine. Trump pledged zero aid to Ukraine; Republicans are blocking it all. Not only will more blood be spilled in Palestine under Republican leadership, but quantifiable more blood will also be spilled in Ukraine. Talk about a Pyrrhic victory.
-2Go be wrong at someone else.
-3You guys lost any relationship with reality, you got groomed by malicious guys.
Imagine being a student and there are 2 teachers you could vote for to be your class teacher. Both hit you, humiliate you and spit in your face every day, but one of them is also a pedophile. "OMG BotH SidES".
you don't have the ability anymore to imagine what a teacher should be like: kind, caring, helpful.
But hey, it's your country, just make the lesser evil your hero..
-4There is also Bidens role in the Iraq war, that actually weighs quite heavy...
Trump is probably still worse, but Biden is bad, really bad.
-5Definitely not biased at all. Israel which rapes, pillages and kills that's not at all a small thing. To try say that Biden is much better than trump is false. They're both poisons only difference is one is a loud mouth. Don't vote for Biden and set a precedence that supporting genocide as a US president will get you to lose your office chair.
-6Oh yes, those are Biden's only problems. Certainly. Also that Israel stone fits on the screen so it ain't big enough
-7Israel? Biden? Ffs 🙄
https://www.kktv.com/video/2024/03/01/biden-calls-immediate-cease-fire-gaza/
and
https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/03/07/world/israel-hamas-war-gaza-news
And now
President Biden told the Israeli leader that airstrikes that killed aid workers were “unacceptable” and appeared to condition future support on how Israel changes course. https://archive.ph/t5tIi
Meanwhile the alternative
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/trump-israel-finish-problem-gaza-1234981038/
The whole "Biden is bad because Israel" line is so absurd compared to Trump that it really must be Russian propaganda.
-7
