China Decides iPhones Pose a National Security Risk
China Decides iPhones Pose a National Security Risk
Employees at some Chinese ministries must stop using iPhones before the end of September.
Employees at some Chinese ministries must stop using iPhones before the end of September.
Of course it is, for the Chinese. Listen, if it isn't a homegrown tech product, it's a threat to your national security, and even most of the homegrown ones are, regardless of what nation you're from or in. This is fact.
72Agreed. Investing in local R&D and having at least enough production capacity to locally manufacture enough decent-quality devices for government use is essential for national security.
But it is also very expensive. The US and China can probably afford it, and I suppose the EU as a bloc can. But for anyone else the cost would be prohibitive. India is a top-five economy, and yet we have only been able to develop 130nm (!) chips locally. (Taiwan makes 5nm chips and China is now reaching 7nm.)
Perhaps a solution would be for many of the 'other' countries to band together. The blueprints could be open-sourced so all partners can trust each other. Whether something like this will work in today's political climate is of course another question.
1
This seems like a logical step, both as a political counter move to the US limiting Huawei and TikTok, and as an actual security measure. If the Chinese state can get intel from Huawei devices, surely the US can get intel from iphones. I'm surprised they didn't include Microsoft.
Edit: a word.
63Probably too difficult logistically to forbid Microsoft
4Well that and MS is like a national champion in China. MS is one of the few companies to follow Chinese law and thus, Bing is the only foreign search engine allowed. MS is what China is hoping every other foreign company will emulate. So yeah, no way China is going to go after MS.
*Edit. Heck, MS is expanding in China even amidst the tech war because they love China so much.
https://nypost.com/2022/09/29/microsoft-faces-us-scrutiny-as-it-nears-10000-employees-in-china/
If anything USA should be banning MS for national security issues.
6
USA: let's ban Huawei
China:
56Permanently Deleted
7So is basically every American tech company. I think its safe to assume that government has access of some sort to any entities that are physically present there be it US, China, India or France. US has some scary gag laws that make whistleblowing almost impossible. Just look at Snowden and PRISM.
8
Say no more fam https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/
4Can't wait to see where Linux phones are in a few years but I have my doubts. Mostly around the app ecosystem (yes I know, just use the web browser for a lot of them), but hopefully the concept stays alive!
3
You just activated my trap card!
2same with Tick Tock
1
I mean it's not like you'd catch a US government official carrying around a Huawei phone either - fair is fair.
43Exactly, if they were allowing US phones before then they were nuts.
13
Of course they pose a national security risk. Imagine your government officials walking around with devices fully capable of recording bodily activities, location, sound, video, and transmit it to a foreign power, with or without the wearer's knowledge. 🤯
Then add the ability of third party powers to use Israel's NSO spying capabilities for these devices.
The moment I could replace these devices with my own home-grown ones, I would. If anything, it's surprising it took them this long. Maybe they thought they had enough control over Apple.
36Imagine your government officials walking around with devices fully capable of recording bodily activities, location, sound, video, and transmit it to a foreign power, with or without the wearer’s knowledge.
They don't have to imagine it. They are actively DOING it with TikTok! Then there's the not so small matter of all the spying that Huwaei was doing using their 5G network equipment.
Here's another one: Have you read the articles about Mozilla reporting what a privacy nightmare today's cars are? China has banned Teslas from being parked in our around their Government Offices and Military bases. Today's cars, especially EVs, are absolutely loaded with high end spy tech. Video recording in optical and non-optical wavelengths, audio recording, gps positioning, radar and ultrasound systems, remote control of those systems, remote data access to those systems...
Since China banned Tesla's cars from being parked in sensitive locations what do you think they are doing with their auto brands such as BYD?
Everyone is spying on each other like mad.
21Haven't read Mozilla's report but I'm in the field and am fully aware. What I can tell you is that at least some of the Motown manufacturers are very privacy oriented at least for now.
Huawei is an unmitigated disaster. Security analyses of their equipment from some years ago showed hundreds of security holes on a single piece of infrastructure networking equipment. Countless vulnerable copies of OpenSSL, you name it. Even if they didn't have any backdoors, the equipment was such a Swiss cheese that you could enter it from many of the gaping holes. The only reason we use it is cost, making the moneys for the shareholders.
6
Buy stock in Huawei, got it.
26Huawei is not a publicly traded company. It's a private company wholly owned by its employees.
15Huawei may be "owned" by its employees but that isn't the same thing as being controlled by them. Huwaei's structure is extremely unusual and highly opaque.
https://sayari.com/resources/huaweis-ownership-opaque-unusual/
11Surely quite a lot of it is owned by the Chinese government. I thought that was the point of the ban, in China essentially all companies are controlled in some level by the Chinese government, and so no Chinese company can be trusted.
Perhaps some mom and pop equivalent corner shop isn't controlled by the Chinese government, but certainly anything operating internationally will be.
0
iPhones pose a risk to the National Security Agencies’ ability to spy on the citizens
19They’ll still have no problem manufacturing them, though.
19Isn’t apple shifting to production in Inda?
13In some capacity. But currently India alone cannot fulfill their requirement.
8Older or lower cost product lines have been yes. This will likely expedite more movement there.
7
Why would they have a problem with that?
11
If the US can do it, so can China. But, of course, both suck (iPhone and Huawei).
18I mean... I don't doubt that any cell phone is.
15really? what purposefully obtuse rock have you been living under?
1
Nice move, China. Right then, let's start drafting the tit-for-tat regulations right away.
14China isn't exactly happy with the US government right now due to the sanctions imposed over advanced chip technology, and this move could be viewed as part of a an ongoing reaction to that. So far, Micron has been the main target for retaliation. The US government already imposes its own restrictions on Chinese hardware and services. Notable, Huawei equipment is banned and TikTok can't be installed on government devices.
Already did. This is the tit-for-tat regulation. America did cause, and China did effect.
5
Any US technology has NSA backdoors. I'm surprised it took them this long to realize, since they do the same thing.
12I'm sure they've known for years, there just wasn't a lot they could do it about and relations with the US were good enough that it wasn't a serious problem...until now.
8
“Made in China”
Looks like Apple will soon go shopping for a new sweatshop
4They’ve already been in India for a while, they’ll just expand there while looking for another one as a backup.
10Yep. They’ve been using their cash and Cook’s supply chain skills to crush competition and secure sweatshops wherever cheap labor can be found. It’s been going on for years. I think they have seen the tensions building in China and Taiwan and have been making mostly subtle changes for years. Covid was an excuse to ramp that up.
2
China bashing aside how likely is the us engaging in tech espionage of foreign countries? Are there any merit in the statement below? (Serious replies only)
“Measures are believed to be aimed at eliminating perceived national security risks from telecoms devices made by a US company”
2That's the new way countries are spying on each other. China and the states are both doing it a lot.
9China bashing aside how likely is the us engaging in tech espionage of foreign countries?
9It’s been documented already. I guess the next question is if there’s any reason to think it’s stopped.
Update: I guess not. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/04/13/us/politics/us-spying-allies.html
6Not sure what tech espionage means. Espionage - yes they are engaging in it and always have. Everyone is. If it means espionage using modern technology, also yes. Tapping underwater cables, collection of unencrypted data, you name it. Snowden lives in exile because we know about it.
1
No shit, having domestically sourced technology is a prerequisite to having any semblance of security.
0If this happens, then 💀 🍎
0Yes put all their government employees on most likely outdated Android which probably don't have up to date security patches. Brilliant.
-12People are down voting this, but I think the point is valid. Unless they are switching to only allowing Chinese branded phones with an entirely Chinese homegrown OS on them, then Apple isn't even the most worrisome device for them to carry.
I'd think anything Android would also be off the table. Anything made by a US ally, anything with a chip, of any kind, manufactured or designed by the US or an ally, and so on. Otherwise, this strikes me as locking the front door for security, but leaving all the other doors and windows open.
1People are down voting this, but I think the point is valid. Unless they are switching to only allowing Chinese branded phones with an entirely Chinese homegrown OS on them, then Apple isn't even the most worrisome device for them to carry.
I'd think anything Android would also be off the table. Anything made by a US ally, anything with a chip, of any kind, manufactured or designed by the US or an ally, and so on. Otherwise, this strikes me as locking the front door for security, but leaving all the other doors and windows open.
-1
Apple's recent reductions on their privacy stance are having consequences.
Huh. Who woulda thunk.
-15What reductions?
20Did they have privacy to begin with?
-3
They haven’t reduced their privacy stance, as far as I’m aware. In fact, the only public previous reduction was a concession to China over iCloud storage
18And if you really want full privacy, storing data in Apple’s cloud storage was never ideal. Apple, like many other cloud storage companies, hands cloud storage data over to authorities if they’re given a warrant.
On-device storage is a different story though. Apple has a no backdoor policy for the iPhone and iOS, which is why they’re constantly getting into fights with law enforcement and government agencies. On device backdoors would offer a massive security vulnerability that would be exploited by bad actors.
3