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  • It is a principle of dialectics that "contradictions are inherent in nature, the struggle between the old and the new is the process of development". Mixing religion with Marxism is a fundamental contradiction (idealism vs materialism, as pointed out by RD) that many of us leftist struggle with due to our own unique material upbringings, but one that we will ultimately overcome and unfetter ourselves off the idealism that comes with religion.

    RD take is the correct one here but this is not the way to address it, it is simply unempathetic to Hakim (we don't know the source of his spirituality, might be related to his upbringing during war?). A private conversation + follow up post would've been the way to address this.

    • Of the 2 takes I've seen RD make on Twitter beefing with Hakim I've agreed with him both times but he's really the embodiment of "incredibly insufferable ML that needs to learn how to 'just vibe' and not drone out class analysis" when people are just casually chatting/hanging out

    • we will ultimately overcome and unfetter ourselves off the idealism that comes with religion

      And if that doesn't happen? China, North Korea, and plenty of AES have religious movements even when atheism is the official stance. China especially can be a guide as many religions were illegal for decades, and people did not stop being religious.

      I think China's dialectical decisions about this reality makes sense, at least for their regulation of it in place of encouragement. For Christianity, they utilize the three-self motto: self-governance, self-support (i.e., financial independence from foreigners), and self-propagation (i.e., indigenous missionary work) to keep practices as indigenous as possible which seems helpful to me.

      • The material conditions that made religion bury deeply into the cultures of the world will slowly fade as the world progresses.

        As marx pointed out religion is the opium of the masses, not as in a party drug but as in a drug that eases the pain and suffering off the oppressed.

  • guy named Hakim from Iraq is Muslim, white people are shocked and appalled

    • Who is surprised? Roderic isn't, as far as this tweet goes. It's just the mixing of idealistic reasoning with Marxist reasoning to try to bring people to Marxism from Islam. It's a method that communists call opportunism and claim, because of materialist philosophy, can only lead to incorrect interpretations and failure of socialist movements. Palestinians have material and religious reasons to resist, but the marxist analysis should focus on the material and how religion connects, not the other way

    • I also feel like it was said with a level of tongue in cheek facetiousness. Pointing to HAMAS' use of religion as an ideological underpinning, and then saying "I'm recommend a book on the subject" and the book is the fucking Quran is..... Very obviously a bit about Hakim's tendency to recommend obscure theory books.

  • I do think Hakim's take is pretty bad here. It's a very idealist belief that's fundamentally not compatible with trying to understand the situation trough a materialist lense.

    Implying he's a reactionary opportunist is just such a massive overreaction though. You're allowed to criticize other socialists without being insufferable about it.

    • There's a case to be made that their religion has become very ingrained with their day to day lives to the point that it's indistinct from any other type of social organization they have. In that case the faith, religious ideology, and texts are a little secondary to things like their family structures, social infrastructure, support networks, and locations where they can organize. So in that sense their religion has become very material, which is often what happens. Religious belief can often be made very manifest in the world, reified through things like very tight social groups. Islam in much of the world, including Palestine, is as much a political organization as it is the more spiritual side of things.

      Although I'd criticize Hakim for characterizing all Palestinians as Muslim, or saying that Islam is the primary thing that's motivating them. Rather, it's more the case that political Islam is the most organized game in town due to historical factors of the region. If it weren't Islam, then people who want liberation would have something else, like how many Irish Republicans are Catholics. It is true though that 98% of Palestinians are Muslim, but that 2% who aren't will probably also want liberation.

    • I think your comment is exactly showing something that we as communists should be aware of: calling someone an opportunist or a reactionary is not some heavenly stamp which forever makes that person incorrect or evil or some shit. Calling someone opportunist only needs to mean "currently in the process we call opportunism" and nothing more. We decide whether that's true and expect the comrade to change or not depending on that result. If they don't change after being opportunist then they are still performing that opportunism.

      Roderic doesn't think Hakim is evil or something, that's more idealist than believing in religion generally, just that the claims to religious power are opportunistic and through that Hakim is performing opportunism. We can disagree, but the idea that we can't call someone something because it's mean, even when that thing is a concrete description of a process, is bullshit that we take from some western Christian beliefs of unwashable guilt (without Jesus or whatever).

      Also to be clear, I disagree with Roderic only because I think that Hakim is doing the "their religion becomes material to their lives" thing and it seems probably true based on the form of resistance Palestinians are doing. The fact that he is also religious makes it complexer (and possible that he should not try to connect it to Marxism) but I'm not bothered by it until we're already far enough in socialism that religion's material presence isn't necessary anymore.

      • That's a really good point.

        Maybe I read the tweet as being more aggressive towards Hakim than it was, because reading the word opportunism I just immediately assumed it's accusing him of not being a real communist or whatever, instead of just criticizing what he's doing right now.

        Thanks for pointing it out, I'll try to be more mindful of that.

    • I'd claim Hakim has the correct take here, and Day's is a vulgar materialist view that ignores the interplay of faith and material conditions.

    • I mean no, it's not. The main anti-colonial group left in Gaza, which is massively popular, is an organization whose primary driving force is Islam. Religion is an incredibly important cultural force that is a key driving factor for Gazans and other Palestinian people in this fight. That is a materialist analysis of the situation lol because that is what the Palestinians themselves are saying. Just look at the wording used by the people there: the dead aren't the dead but 'martyrs', and this isn't just a conflict but a 'jihad' (righteous fight).

      Hakim is very correctly noting the obvious here in that a vast majority of the Palestinians are Muslim and that their faith is a primary driver of this conflict for them. Painting in broad strokes isn't denying that there aren't any secular Palestinians, but talking about how Palestinians are fighting back and resisting in aggregate / at a zoomed out level.

  • i love red sails, but RD needs to shut the fuck up on twitter. or maybe focus on promoting theory and engaging in legitimate, helpful criticism instead of smearing other socialist content creators on the pettiest straw man shit

  • This is just regular Roderic, he takes things to peak seriousness and is allergic to not standing his ground on shit he thinks are fundamental matters of principle and theory.

    Pretty much all his other recent posts are about the Palestinian genocide, he just thinks for whatever various reasons that this kind of thinking is opportunism and harmful rather than helpful, and because he is the way he is he feels he has to stand his ground on that point of theory.

  • Roderic is probably the most principled and learned marxist I know online. He's a cool dude and he is definitely not taking an L here.

  • Last sigh of the oppresed? how bout you do class analysis

    Gaza is a bunch of lumpenproletariat and kids, jesus christ mate, they don't have anything else to be strong outside of hope of religion. they dont control their lives in any way, israel is the camp guard counting their calories like the fuck

    • they don't have anything else to be strong outside of hope of religion

      This doesnt seem right to me. Palestinian people resist and persist because they are colonized people wanting liberation, self determination and through their will to live. Just like the Koreans did, just like the Vietnamese did, just like the Haitians or Algerians did. Just like hundreds of millions did under as bad or worse colonial or imperial opression. Palestinian resistance is admirable but it isnt something historicaly unique that needs the "hope of religion" or the "importance of islam" in order to exist or be explained. At best those are of symbolic importance and manifesting due to the particular superstructure in Gaza but the actual struggle and anti-colonial martyrdom and bravery is something that has been replicated again and again across massively different religious and cultural contexts.

      Palestinian people persist and would have persisted just as much in the absense of Islam. If they were cristian , atheist or buddhist. As tens if not hudred sof thousands of non Muslim palestinians do and did. The Quran no matter how beautifuly written doesnt actualy provide any insight for a marxist in the analysis of how and why Palestinians persist and reading the biography of the Prophet and some book by a white dude that converted to islam are anything but foundemental in understanding or interpreting the palestinian struggle and neither are they particularly usefull for building or expanding any other struggle, neo-colonial or otherwise

      Palestinians have everything most other opressed and colonized people had in order to be strong. And they are strong and would be strong outside of the "hope of Islam" .

    • I think you're confusing critique of Gazans with critique of someone who is openly Marxist utilizing religion to explain the Gazans WITHOUT mentioning how their religion is material to them. It's the fact that the tweets talk about Islam as a force above the material conditions. Hakim believes it, and I'm not bothered by that at all and support it, but do not appreciate the mix with materialism without being clear about that relationship. It's kinda impossible to avoid as a believer and is a clear contradiction, but we have many more of those that are more important than religion/materialism at this point.

  • Have you read the rest? Hakim straight up push proselite shit and suggest islam is somehow uniquely and naturally revolutionary.

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