Apparent unwritten rule of "No posts about Palestine" on !worldnews@sh.itjust.works
FreeMindFreeAss @ FreeMindFreeAss @lemmy.world Posts 0Comments 45Joined 6 days ago
FreeMindFreeAss @ FreeMindFreeAss @lemmy.world
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Honestly that's one thing I like about Lemmy, those conversations are much more possible here.
Hey man, I talk to everyone, including IDF soldiers due to where I live. (popular holiday spot for Israelis) I do think that it's worth reflecting upon why the people you meet irl with whom you agree seem like the wrong kind of religious zealots. I grew up crazy evangelical. Zealotry was all that I ever knew. Speaking ill of Israel never ever even crossed my mind until I was probably in my late 20s, that's how strong the religious indoctrination and constant media propaganda is in the US. I was in a Southern Baptist Death Cult. They loved Israel, and the things that they said about Muslims I don't want to repeat here, I'm sure it wasn't an isolated case but the most loving grannies would let hellfire out of their eyes when the pastor was talking about the enemies of Israel. Religion is just too effective at manipulating one's idea of right and wrong. Part of the reason I left is because I saw people who were clearly lost in darkness exulted to high positions in my church. It was some bs, and I was a teen so I had the inclination to rebel against BS. Thank God.
I don't think weirdness is a good basis for opinions, I'm very weird in my way.
But as I said, if most of the people that you meet in real life who share your views on this give you the heebee jeebees, it's at least worth entertaining the idea that your view has been fed to you by online narratives pushed by someone with an agenda.
That's why it is so important to talk to real people. I know, it can be hard. I'm autistic and grew up way tf out in the sticks, like horror movie out in the sticks.
And, until I left and began meeting and talking with more people, I didn't know that I was kinda racist, but I was. Because everyone I knew was, I didn't know that it wasn't normal.
So I guess keep talking, you know what is good and you know what is wrong. We are bombarded with media vying for our attention and opinions, but deep down, you know. Stay true to that.
Yeah I'm with ya there, that's the first step I'd like to see. The right wing in power now scares the bejesus out of me and has the possibility foment generations of hate.
He would lose if there were elections.
Yeah I know, and it almost seems hypocritical since we all basically come form colonial powers. but we used to to horrible shit all the time. We know better, we can be better. And to do it in the name of religion truly disgusts me. Like it or not, the tides are turning.
Tell me about the Nakba? the first one.
Well I mean I know that.
I am not a scholar on the subject, but if you would be so kind as to educate me on the topics wherein my knowledge is lacking I would appreciate that.
I'm not a scholar on the subject, but I would say that antisemites are racist again Jews, in the same way that other racists are racist against Arabs or blacks. The exact same thing, ethnic hate. It's usually pretty easy to identify real hate. Especially if you have been following this conflict. Look into Smoltrich's eyes when he speaks if you need a reference for what hate or evil looks like. There are also plenty of antisemitic podcasters out there. The difference is noticeable.
Antizionists do not believe in the extermination of the indigenous ethnic groups who were inhabiting Palestine AT THE TIME THAT THE EUROPEANS ARRIVED, but do not hate Jews in general. Many of us are jews or come from Jewish backgrounds. An antisemite might hate that a Synagogue opens down the street, an antizionist wouldn't care, but would hate that a mosque was demolished with anti-tank mines for a tik tok video in Gaza. It's a pretty easy thing to notice.
I have living relatives older than Israel, Israel is not Judaism. We do not believe that the land being stolen should be stolen, we do not believe that the people being massacred, should be massacred. We can call it Zionism because that is the word that we have come to use, but it's good ol' fashioned colonialism with a pretty name, and we both know it. If it makes you feel nicer, let's call it settler-colonialism. No connection to religion at all.
Something like that, it's actually a very easy distinction to make. The only people that I see struggling with the distinction are Zionists.
There is always going to be racism. But my fellow human being, genocide is taking place with our money, we are doing this. We will have to die one day and answer for this, and you know as well as I on which side of the scale this will fall.
Did you hear about the ceasefire? Let's see what Israel does. Let's just see.
More of a reaction to being treated like a child, we are adults. We can talk like adults. I am not an idiot, if you lie clearly, it will be clear.
To your question, yes, I think that there is overlap. And that is the danger. I have seen more antisemitism in the mainstream in the last 3 years than in my entire life. My great-aunt burned our family documents in the 90s because she was still afraid that another holocaust could happen. I understand the sensitivity. But it can never be an excuse to do to others what was done to your people. Nobody can look at what is happening and use any other word. We are witnessing a holocaust carried out by the people from which I come. Weep, do not cheer. I think that we are on the same side. I mean, I'm sure that we have different views on the state of Israel and its actions spanning the past 80 years.
But I believe that this genocide, which we all see daily, which we cannot deny, which is ruining the emotional health of former IDF soldiers used as pawns for an imperial endeavor and destroying the lives of their cousins that they are forced to dehumanize and kill, (Again, I speak in-person with former and current IDF members, do you?) is pushing people who might not have had much of an opinion, maybe they laughed at old Jewish jokes, pushing them towards actual hate, because people like Bibi constantly conflate this genocide as a holy war for the Jewish people. When in reality it is an imperial massacre. He and others like him conflate this genocide with protecting the Jewish people. Which side are you on, antisemitism, or pro-genocide of Arabs? Asks Bibi.
Do
You
See
The
Problem
With
That
?
It's not my fault you open antisemitic propaganda pages. Do you give your bank info to random pop ups on porn sites too and then blame it on your computer? Weird how you keep using the word antisemitism when we are talking about Zionism. Why is that? Do you see how the conflation can happen? Most adults know how to use google, you can find tutorials but someone might need to show you how to use youtube first.
Are you just an open liar? The first page when you search his name is plastered with the term "Media Mogul".
This is why people don't talk to you. Stop with the games or leave me alone. You convince no-one. Actually, keep it up, people on the fence can see how dumb your position sounds.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3p9Y2Sayd3k
But yeah, not a guy who is connected in any way to a government or media organization. I'm done with you. I wish you could open your heart to the suffering of the world, but it's not my job to pry it open. It's not my heart to care about.
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cr4qwwk0g0yo
But go on, let's hear about how Fortune and the BBC are Neo Nazi propaganda outlets. You freak. Fuck you. Saying that I consumed neo nazi propaganda? If you knew me.... But of course you don't. Fortune magazine? The BBC? God I hope you're a bot because I do not want to have wasted the past hour talking to a wall. I don't want to believe that anyone could be so dense.
But if you don't want to do any genuine research, as I said, kindly walk away. Keep your horrible, awful vibes to yourself and jerk off over every meter of the Gaza strip which bears a new Israeli flag planted in a generational family home. Be shitty. Who cares about you. It's you who will need to live with this.
Yeah, half of my family is from Southern Tennessee/West Virginia/South Ohio, the other half is from Eastern Canada and Northern Michigan, where I was born. (I mean, European, Jewish and First Nation but I just look white. Most of them, aside from those fleeing the holocaust, came over in the 1600s so its been long enough to become pretty mixed) I'm sure both sides had different reasons, but they had the same sentiment. This here land is yours, and nobody comes in unless you invite them. Neighbors all had that same agreement. That's a bigger part of America than a lot of people know.
Nope. If I thought that you were actually curious, like you actually don't know and would like to learn, I would. If that is the case, tell me. But I do not get that feeling. Because you're proving to be one of those posters who adds nothing of substance and puts 100% of the impetus on your interlocutor, as though it were my job to educate you on something about which you could easily educate yourself. One singular Google search can give you your answer, but I guess blinders are nice if you don't wanna see what's to the left or right of you aren't they? You got a brain, use it if you want to learn. Don't use it if you want to pretend that your view is and has always been the only possible truth. But don't be surprised when most people call you out. It's your life. I've wasted enough time talking to people who discuss like 5th graders because they are aware of their lack of substance.
Look, if you like your viewpoint, say it clearly. That's all. It's the internet, say you're anything you want. But stop this word game shit like you're some super N'th level guy just loaded with the best and most relevant words and expressions with which to linguistically trap your opponent. Try honesty. Try clarity. It feels nice.
Let's go one-for-one. Larry Ellison. Your turn. Just so I can know that I'm speaking with a thinking person.
No, he wasn't the first colonial leader, and he won't be the last though I hope he is, he's just the leader at this time when technology has begun to allow for the live-streaming of murder. And he doubles down, and doubles down. And says "Don't believe your lying eyes, these are animals that are being killed, they are not people.". DO YOU KNOW THE LAST TIME WE HEARD THAT KIND OF TALK? The last time that kind of talk was permitted in government my family tree had an entire trunk pruned off. Don't act like any one group is sos special that they could never commit unspeakable atrocities. Ask former IDF soldiers how they feel about what they were ordered to do. Many of them vacation where I live. I talk to them, do you?
I don't know, zionist occupied media is an odd way to put it and I really don't appreciate any attempt at baiting the conversation toward hate. I know semantics are really all you have to work with when on the wrong side of good and evil, but it's obvious and annoying. Are you ok with unabashed Zionist billionaires attempting to control every part of the narrative that they can while supporting clear war crimes? You can't be for that, right? Literally spending billions in order to whitewash the perception of ethnic cleansing? Would you be ok if it were Muslim interests? Or Catholic? Or Hindu? Why? Or Why not?
To be honest, about the overlap between anti-zionism and antisemitism.... I don't think it's what you may expect. It seems as though a lot of western racists are actually pro-zionist. They don't plan on going to Israel. Look who Bibi and Trump break bread with, antisemitism does not seem to bother them very much. NICK FUENTES HAD DINNER AT THE WHITE HOUSE. This is not about the sanctity of religion, it is an imperial endeavor period. They meet with clear antisemites who support Israel, that's all they really care about. I doubt Bibi even cares about religion at all. Antizionism really ruffles their feathers though, not antisemitism. Why would that be? Now why would that possibly be? This might just be the greatest mystery of our time.
Yeah I know, it's a huge problem right now. Antisemitism is rising in a dangerous way and if you want to blame someone, his name starts with B and ends in enjamin Netanyahu. Or "The Decades-Long Funder of Hamas" as he is sometimes known.
That's what I mean, this conflation with insane Zionists like Bibi or Ben Givr or Smoltritch or Larry Ellison or settlers in the West Bank with the religion of Judaism is the #1 cause of increasing antisemitism. Nothing even comes close. When humans see evil, we want it to stop, go figure huh?
Like you said "Sounds a lot like 'jews control the media'.". Yeah, because Zionists are making it their entire goal to do that. They are talking openly about it. Not Jews, Zionists. Listen to Bibi's cringy-ass recent speech about controlling the media narrative. They are saying that this is what they are doing. They are intentionally making the conflation so that people like you, can come on here and claim that anti-zionism is antisemitism. In this way, they can continue their genocide. I made my choice, because I am an adult. I don't care what they call it. Have you?
We see every day unspeakable atrocities, and the leaders of the nations responsible for this go on TV and tell us all that it is hateful to Jews if we stand against this evil because the perpetrators are Israeli. So people are given the choice, by Zionsts, to either stand against evil or be labeled antisemitic.
Do you see the problem here?
Israelis are waking up too, you ever wonder why there is always a magic reason to postpone elections whenever Bibi is on the block? He will never stop war by choice. If it stops, he retires in prison, and he knows this. He is using you.
ZIONISTS.
Do you understand that this is a word with a different meaning from Judaism? Like, if I said "Theocratic-Christian", is your first thought "Sounds like a conspiracy meant to smear all Christians."? Or do you have the critical thinking skills to understand that there is more than one sect of any religious belief? Because the other option is that you are intelligent, but just like to bend words in order to score semantic victories while your soul withers under the weight of the horrors which you choose to defend. That can't be it, I don't think you're an evil guy,
Jews have been here for thousands of years, half of my family was Jewish, everyone aside from my great-grandparents on one side died in the camps. We don't control shit.
ZIONISTS are religious ethno-supremecist racists who have been around for roughly 100 years. My grandmother is older than Israel. And the outlets which I named are clearly and objectively controlled by ZIONIST interests. If you don't like that, do something to change it instead of just pouting when others mention it.
If you hear Zionism, and conflate it with Judaism, that's not anybody's problem but yours.
You sleep alright at night? Gonna be peaceful when the end of your old age comes as it will for us all? Think real hard, you only have this one chance to be against evil. Use it. Or don't, but you don't get to pretend you didn't know. If you have a god, he is not fooled.
Also you guys sound so dumb. "Oh this is so left! We need our own platform without so many lefties!!!" "Oh there is so much pro palestine propaganda, this sucks!"
Like dude maybe you are just in the minority of shitty people with shitty ideals? Maybe that's why you can't find peers without lurking into the truly dark parts of the internet. Maybe if you actually met your contemporaries with whom you agree in real life, you would be horrified. Maybe, just maybe, the problem is you. I know, what a hard concept for a fully grown adult to grasp. take all the time you need. So work on it or decide to never be an adult. Like I said, it's not any of our problem, it's yours to live with for eternity. If "being ok with dead kids" is your legacy, stop being a pussy and own it. Tell us, tell us you like it. Say it clearly. I can clearly state my beliefs without a hint of shame. Imagine what that must be like? It's nice, you can get there too, but nobody's gonna hold your hand. This post s probably the most help you will ever get. Good luck.
Israel proponents control Paramount, Reddit, Meta, CBS and now Tik Tok. What do YOU mean? What tf do you actually mean?
Yeah they like it, they're a bit late to the party though. Even maga is waking up, the issue is that they have nowhere else to go, for a decade they were told that democrats are literal demons. So we need to come together and drop partisanship if we want to survive.
Look, I love Germany, I love Germans, a few of my ex girlfriends were German, my best friends are German, I used to live in Germany. But they truly, on a viscerally deep level, do not understand Americans. They don't understand our values, they don't understand our humor, they tiptoe very carefully around race-issues, but they don't understand how we can actually integrate and mix rather than maintaining strict racial neighborhoods organically, (aside from a few places, like Berlin but that's a special place) they don't understand what makes us do crazy things or why we help people we don't know, why we start conversations with strangers if we don't have some goal in talking to them. They don't understand us. And they want to use us. They see racism which basically aligns with theirs, and they hope to form an alliance, but it will never sway the American public at large. Talk all the shit you want about Americans being propagandized by FOX, it's true, but so is your country and everyone else's. Now they have to find out the hard way that deep down, and at a number much higher than any other demographic in the entire nation, we fucking hate Nazis and authoritarianism. Federal agents used to know better than to even walk into some states. That feeling never went away.
You have any guns in your house from the last time your relatives had to fight the government over authoritarian tendencies over there in Germany? I do, everyone I know does, and I'm just some dude from a small-town. We never stopped buying them, because we still remember. My grandfather REFUSED to buy a rifle if it had a registration. My grandfather on the other side was at the Ford strike where the government opened fire into the picket. He never put money into a bank even. He made sure I understood that the government is not there to help us, and he gave me his guns. My neighbor used to get drunk and let off his AK into some dead car in his back yard. There are millions of him. Millions. You'll find racists in the US, but 90% of us fucking hate them too. They're just the loudest whiniest little bitches that exist, doing their gay little color-coded marches because daddy never hugged them enough, and their crimes are heinous, so they occupy a far larger online footprint than they do in the real world. How many videos of Nazis getting rocked in the US can you find? How many videos of them backing down at the slightest resistance? How many videos of nazis rocking opponents in the US? Exactly. They are bitch-boy cosplayers who think that after their shitty homoerotic fascist state is implemented, that they can just go and take women like in caveman days. They can't get laid not because they suck, but because society precludes the natural way of doing it. (I've heard these freaks talk like that) Thing is, there's at least a 50% chance it would be a girl that smoked them in this situation. more like 80%. Everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. And I've seen girls fuck up guys who look like your average y'all-queada marcher. These guys haven't been punched in the mouth enough yet. They think they want it, because any pussy can hold a gun and they assume that they are the only ones who have them, but they really, really don't. The poor fuckers need love, but they've spent their lives creating the most unlovable persona possible. So in short, they need to grow the fuck up and stop being such whiny bitches. Nobody's gonna do it for ya, not even that cool older dude at the paintball place with a lil ss sticker on his gun who invites your teenage friends to his place for practice. Ya know, the neo-n*zi militia recruiter. We know, and if we know, you better get smart before it's too late.
There might have been a time, a few years back, where they could have jumped on the train and taken advantage of the confusion, but now it's too late. Their open nazis are getting ousted and facing real legal consequences and they know they can't hold on for too much longer. Nobody gives af about Czech president, the tide has turned fully against Putin and Trumpsim, now the only issue is watching which sandcastles last the longest against the inevitable eroding flow of the social pendulum.
EDIT: Sorry, these guys rile me up. No bad vibes intended.
Exactly this. They would make kinda jokes about Jewish stuff. But they want the State of Israel to exist.