I am making this post in the name of transparency, regarding a specific dispute case involving the arbitrator Tinted and user Grefin. In the following I try to be as neutral as possible.
Timeline of events:
19th of August:
A trade with Grefin as maker and XMR seller is taken, however the trade partner asks Grefin for extra identifying information, claiming it was requested by the bank.
A taker should only expect to receive whatever is stated in the offer. At this point Grefin has every right to have the trade canceled.
Grefin opens a dispute, stating the issue to the arbitrator Tinted and asks for the trade to be canceled due to the extra information asked for by their trade partner.
Tinted agrees but still needs to confirm with Grefins trade partner that the trade should be canceled and no funds were sent. ___ 21st of August:
Tinted gives the non-responsive trade partner 24 hours to respond, otherwise they will assume no funds have been paid and cancel the trade.
The trade was a sell offer worth 4.2882 XMR with a 0.675 security deposit, which amounts to 4.9632 XMR. Since the maker fee of 0.5% still applies so the payout amount to Grefin should have been ~4.93838 XMR minus Monero network fees.
Tinted decided a small reimbursement from the taker towards Grefin is justified and tries to pay out 4.95 XMR to Grefin.
This payout fails due to a (now fixed) Haveno bug. Tinted instructs Grefin to apply a patch to their local Haveno-reto client to enable the option to re-open the closed dispute and re-attempt the payment before the next version of Haveno-reto is released.
Re-opened disputes can sometimes be displayed in a bugged state where they are open on the client side but still closed on the arbitrator side. At this point the client can send messages and the arbitrator can read them but is unable to reply.
Eventually the payment is properly broadcasted and Grefin receives a payout of 4.95 XMR. Due to the trade fee, Grefin has now 0.0132 XMR less than before the trade and 0.01162 XMR more than without the small reimbursement made from the trade partners security deposit.
At this point, Tinted is unaware the payout has cleared and is waiting on version 1.0.11 to release to re-attempt the payout. ___ 5th of September:
Grefin asks Tinted in the Haveno reto SimpleX group why they have received less than they expected, claiming their trade partner tried to scam them and that they deserve the partners full security deposit of 0.675 XMR. Grefin also accused Tinted of potentially colluding with the trade partner but didn't provide any details nor evidence supporting this very serious accusation.
We have stated in the past that we make our decisions with the help of bisqs table of penalties. Since Haveno is still relatively new, we are more lenient in regards to traders going MiA since it might be related to a software issue. According to the table, asking for more info (specifically "shotgun KYC") carries a penalty of up to 10% of the security deposit. Since the request for more information was made before any funds were sent, Tinted chose to only apply a fraction of the penalty.
I offered Grefin to pay 0.25 XMR out of my own pocket but they have declined. Tinted offered to pay the full 10% penalty (0.067 XMR) to Grefin out of pocket but so far Grefin has not provided a Monero address.
___
In my personal opinion, Tinted did not make a major mistake, although Grefin should have had the entirety of the arbitration fee covered by the trade partners security deposit. In the future we will put extra importance on this when making payout decisions.
This situation has highlighted the maker-taker fee split. I would like to know peoples opinions on if we should keep the existing split (0.1% taker, 0.5% maker) or adjust it. For comparison, Localmonero used to have a 1% taker and no maker fee. I should also mention that we are reluctant to setting either side to 0% since we don't know for sure that it won't cause any software-related issues.
Thank you for reading, I hope this post clears up any misunderstandings regarding this specific arbitration case.
-m, haveno-reto
What's Changed Add scripts to run Haveno on Tails by @BrandyJSon in #1036 Add Turkish translation by @muklavon in #1049 Fix stale data error by creating unsigned payout tx by @woodser in #1040 Dis...
This update fixes a bunch of bugs, more details at the link.
As always it is advised to:
BACK UP your haveno wallet seedphrase
You can make a manual backup by copying your haveno-reto app directory somewhere safe. You should be able to find it here:
-Linux: ~/.local/share/Haveno-reto/
-macOS: ~/Library/Application Support/Haveno-reto/
-Windows: ~\AppData\Roaming\Haveno-reto\
It's a change to how trades are done in the background.
Before, the taker client would select the arbitrator, now this is done by the maker. Before this change, a rouge arbitrator with a modified client could have taken all open trades, assign themself to them and pay them out to themself.
After this change, the maker-side selects the arbitrator, and a rouge one would lose a bunch of bond in the trades they weren't assigned to. The more arbitrators there are, the less likely it gets that one of them could go rouge and make a profit. For example: at 20 arbitrators, a rouge arbitrator would be expected to lose the 15% bond for 19 out of 20 trades. That is on average nearly 3 times higher than the expected return of the 1 trade they can actually drain.
This is why we will ask many trusted community members to become arbitrators once the software has become more stable and there aren't multiple updates per month anymore.
Initially we used github actions to build the installers and have people download them from their, which requires a github account.
First step:
BACK UP your haveno wallet seedphrase
Afterwards you can install the update by running the installers from this page (click on the most recent workflow run and scroll down) again or compile it yourself via the repo. Unlike last time, there is no need to wipe any data beforehand.
You can make a manual backup by copying your haveno-reto app directory somewhere safe. You should be able to find it here:
-Linux: ~/.local/share/Haveno-reto/
-macOS: ~/Library/Application Support/Haveno-reto/
-Windows: ~\AppData\Roaming\Haveno-reto\
Changes:
- Update Tor by @preland
- Fix the backup function.
- Fix incorrect translations in withdraw screen.
- Fix incorrect amounts and error in order statistics view.
- Deduplicate trade history view.
- Reset state if main wallet is swapped.
- Remove excessive warnings in main wallet polling.
Presumably once the network has been running stable for a while and there aren't multiple updates a week. There is also an issue on the main Haveno repo that could make custom binaries unnecessary. In that case you would get them straight from Haveno and only add a reto config file.
From its readme:
Stalled development at this moment, don't use.
Reto is an instance of Haveno (and currently the only one). The developers of Haveno do not to run an instance themselves and instead put out the code and instructions on how to run it. We hope people decide to join our instance and have a low arbitration fee of 0.6% without any direct network fee. Right now there are already 12 live offers totaling 26.5 XMR and so far 2 real-world trades have been made!
The network is live and we have already seen some successful trades!
We have just updated to Haveno version 1.0.4 and this includes some changes to the default application folder so we ask you to please
BACK UP your haveno wallet seedphrase
afterwards uninstall Haveno and clear your Haveno app directory located at:
-Linux: ~/.local/share/Haveno/
-macOS: ~/Library/Application Support/Haveno/
-Windows: ~\AppData\Roaming\Haveno\
Afterwards you can install Haveno again via the installers on this page (click on the most recent workflow run and scroll down) or compile it yourself via the repo.
This wipes existing offers and trade history. Impact on users should be minimal since this happened before many trades occurred. We don't expect this to happen again in the future.
There are currently not many hardcoded arbitrators and one of them is on top of that still offline. We are not entirely sure if simply retrying works or if you have to restart before your client picks an arbitrator that is online. It might also have resolved itself after the network has propagated a bit more.
The easiest way to get going is with the pre-build installers found when on this page (click on the most recent workflow run and scroll down).
Alternatively you can clone the repo here.
Reto has a total trade fee of 0.6% (0.1% taker, 0.5% maker) which goes to arbitrators in it's entirety, there is no direct network fee.
Join the Reto SimpleX Group to stay up-to-date!
Note:
If you previously installed Haveno, first clear your Haveno app directory to reset things, located at:
-Linux: ~/.local/share/Haveno/
-macOS: ~/Library/Application Support/Haveno/
-Windows: ~\AppData\Roaming\Haveno\
In the last couple of hours we have laid out the groundwork for the very first live instance of Haveno called Reto.
We have set up multiple seednodes and have trusted arbitrators.
We expect to be able to provide simple instructions on how to join Reto within the next 24 hours, after which we will hopefully see the first trades happen!
Join our SimpleX group to stay updated:
https://simplex.chat/contact#/?v=2-4&smp=smp%3A%2F%2FSkIkI6EPd2D63F4xFKfHk7I1UGZVNn6k1QWZ5rcyr6w%3D%40smp9.simplex.im%2FMplYm7uxopKyUOrKqnWySpXQIGxoJWYB%23%2F%3Fv%3D1-2%26dh%3DMCowBQYDK2VuAyEAs8PcRwnf_-H30yXfwV0MSbka9I_xBeVNr4vKJNoReBw%253D%26srv%3Djssqzccmrcws6bhmn77vgmhfjmhwlyr3u7puw4erkyoosywgl67slqqd.onion&data=%7B%22type%22%3A%22group%22%2C%22groupLinkId%22%3A%22YT2t__GnjpZ1W2MjJAz6Sw%3D%3D%22%7D
See you soon on Reto!