scruiser @ scruiser @awful.systems

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This week's southpark makes fun of prediction markets! Hanson and the rationalists can be proud their idea has gone mainstream enough to be made fun of. The episode actually does a good job highlighting some of the issues with the whole concept: the twisted incentives and insider trading and the way it fails to actually create good predictions (as opposed to just getting vibes and degenerate gambling).

and the person who made up the "math pets" allegation claimed no such source

I was about to point out that I think this is the second time he claimed math pets had absolutely no basis in reality (and someone countered with a source that forced him to) but I double checked the posting date and this is the example I was already thinking of. Also, we have supporting sources that didn't say as much directly but implied it heavily: https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/42iv09/a_yudkowsky_blast_from_the_past_his_okcupid/ or like, the entire first two thirds of the plot of Planecrash!

Here: https://glowfic.com/posts/4508

Be warned, the three quarters of the thread don't have much of a plot and are basically two to three characters talking, then the last quarter time skips ahead and gives massive clunky worldbuilding dumps. (This is basically par for the course with glowfic, the format supports dialogue interaction heavy stories and it's really easy to just kind of let the plot meander. Planecrash, for all of its bloat and diversions into eugenics lectures, is actually relatively plot heavy for glowfic.)

On the upside, the first three quarters almost read like a sneer on rationalists.

We've sneered about dath ilan before on the reddit sneerclub, and occasionally I work references to dath ilan's lore into sneers, but other than that no.

Where else am I supposed to fine deep analyses of the economic implications of 1st level wizards and clerics on an early modern setting? and analyses of Intelligence score distributions across the nations of Golarion?

You are close! It is a bdsm AU (inspired by an Archive of Our Own Trend of writing alternate universe settings of a particular flavor), i.e. everyone identifies as "Dominant" or "Submissive", and that identification is more important than gender in most ways. Ironically the dath ilan character is the one freaked out by this.

I mean the aftermath of Buterlian Jihad eventually lead to brutal feudalism that lasted a really long time and halted multiple lines of technological and social development, so I wouldn't exactly call it a success for the common person.

It would be only light cringey if he kept it as a fiction writing project not strongly linked to his other writings. But as Architeuthis says, he not only links to it frequently, he cites it like it was a philosophy paper or something that obviously everyone should have read. Example from our old reddit discussions: https://www.reddit.com/r/SneerClub/comments/x3pihv/to_be_fair_you_have_to_have_a_very_high_iq_to/

So us Americans do get some of "grabbed guns and openly fought" in the history of our revolutionary war, but its taught in a way that doesn't link it to any modern movements that armed themselves. And the people most willing to lean into guns and revolutionary war imagery/iconography tend to be far right wing (and against movement for worker's rights or minorities' rights or such).

So, to give the first example that comes to mind, in my education from Elementary School to High School, the (US) Civil Rights movement of the 1950s and 1960s was taught with a lot of emphasis on passive nonviolent resistance, downplaying just how disruptive they had to make their protests to make them effective and completely ignoring armed movements like the Black Panthers. Martin Luther King Jr.'s interest and advocacy for socialism is ignored. The level of organization and careful planning by some of the organizations isn't properly explained. (For instance, Rosa Parks didn't just spontaneously decide to not move her seat one day, they planned it and picked her in order to advance a test case, but I don't think any of my school classes explained that until High School.) Some of the level of force the federal government had to bring in against the Southern States (i.e. Federal Marshals escorting Ruby Bridges) is properly explained, but the full scale is hard to visualize so. So the overall misleading impression someone could develop or subconsciously perceive is that rights were given to black people through democratic processes after they politely asked for them with just a touch of protests.

Someone taking the way their education presents the Civil Rights protests at face value without further study will miss the role of armed resistance, miss the level of organization and planning going on behind pivotal acts, and miss just how disruptive protests had to get to be effective. If you are a capital owner benefiting from the current status quo (or well paid middle class that perceives themselves as more aligned with the capital owners than other people that work for a living), then you have a class interest in keeping protests orderly and quiet and harmless and non-disruptive. It vents off frustration in a way that ultimately doesn't force any kind of change.

This hunger strike and other rationalist attempts at protesting AI advancement seems to suffer from this kind of mentality. They aren't organized on a large scale and they don't have coherent demands they agree on (which is partly a symptom of the fact that the thing they are trying to stop is so speculative and uncertain). Key leaders like Eliezer have come out strongly against any form of (non-state) violence. (Which is a good thing, because their fears are unfounded, but if I actually thought we were doomed with p=.98 I would certainly be contemplating vigilante violence.) (Also, note form the nuke the datacenter's comments, Eliezer is okay with state level violence.) Additionally, the rationalist often have financial and social ties to the very AI companies they are protesting, further weakening their ability to engage in effective activism.

The way typical US educations (idk about other parts of the world) portray historical protests and activist movements has been disastrous to the ability of people to actually succeed in their activism. My cynical assumption is that is exactly as intended.

Thanks for the lore, and sorry that you had to ingest all that at some point.

Ironically, one of the biggest lore drops about dath ilan happens in a story I initially thought at the time was a parody of rationalists and the concept of dath ilan (Eliezer used a new penname for the story). The main dath ilan character (isekai'd into an Earth mostly similar to our own but with magic and uh.. other worldbuilding conceits I won't get into here) jumps to absurd wild conclusion throughout basically every moment of the story, and unlike HJPEV is actually wrong about basically every conclusion she jumps to. Of course, she's a woman, and it comes up towards the ending that she is below average for dath ilan intelligence (but still above the Earth average, obviously), so don't give Eliezer too much credit for allowing a rationalist character to be mostly wrong for once.

I don't know how he came up with the name... other fanfic writers in rationalist-adjacent space have complained about his amateurish attempts at conlanging, so there probably isn't a sophisticated conlang explanation about phonemes involved. You might be on the right track guessing at weird anagrams?

Hey, it was Caroline Ellison who wanted to be part of the Imperial Chinese Harem! Also, judging by Dragon Army and Leverage Research. the communes aren't anarchist! They are tightly controlled by a single great man type leader.

In Eliezer's "utopian" worldbuilding fiction concept, dath ilan, they erased their entire history just to cover up the any mention of any concept that might inspire someone to think of "superintelligence" (and as an added bonus purge other wrong-think concepts). The Philosopher Kings Keepers have also discouraged investment and improvement in computers (because somehow, despite now holding any direct power and the massive financial incentives and dath ilan being described as capitalist and libertarian, the Keepers can just sort of say their internal secret prediction market predicts bad vibes from improving computers too much and everyone falls in line). According to several worldbuiding posts, dath ilan has built an entire secret city that gets funded with 2% of the entire world's GDP to solve AI safety in utter secrecy.

Given the USA legislature's incompetence, I imagine they would leave some sort of massive loopholes. Depending on the exact wording, you could get around it with technically not GPUs (as you suggest), or subdividing companies so each subdivision can be technically under the limit, or cranking up the size of individual GPUs so 8 GPUs is a massive amount of compute. Of course, I really doubt it would get that far in the first place, look at how they killed California's attempt at the most moderate AI legislation.

It's a microcosm of lesswrong's dysfunction: IQ veneration, elitism, and misunderstanding the problem in the first place. And even overlooking those problems, I think intellect only moderately correlates with an appreciation for science and an ability to understand science. Someone can think certain scientific subjects are really cool but only have a layman's grasp of the technical details. Someone can do decently in introductory college level physics with just a willingness to work hard and being decent at math. And Eliezer could have avoided tangents about nuclear reactors or whatever to focus on stuff relevant to AI.

There's also Eliezer's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his parables-- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Godel Escher Bach, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of his parables, to realize that they're not just entertaining- they say something deep about the nature of Intelligence. As a consequence people who dislike IABIED truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the motivation in Eliezier's existencial catchphrase "Tsuyoku Naritai!," which itself is a cryptic reference to Japanese culture. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Nate Soares genius unfolds itself on their copy of IABIED. What fools... how I pity them. 😂 And yes by the way, I DO have a rationalist tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the math pet's eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

Yeah, in some hypothetical bizarro universe where they get their 8 (cutting edge) GPU limit actually passed, I bet the monitoring scheme would be loose in a way that Microsoft just has a box to tick while strict enough that it imposes untenable costs on private individuals.

So if I understood NVIDIA's "strategy" right, their usage of companies like Coreweave is drawing in money from other investors and private equity? Does this mean, that unlike many of the other companies in the current bubble, they aren't going to lose money on net, because they are actually luring in investment from other sources in companies like Coreweave (which is used to buy GPU and thus goes to them), whileleaving the debt/obligations in the hands of companies like Coreweave? If I'm following right this is still a long term losing strategy (assuming some form of AI bubble pop or deflation we are all at least reasonably sure of), but the expected result for NVIDIA is more of a massive drop in revenue as opposed to a total collapse of their company under a mountain of debt?

Side note: The way I've seen clanker used has been for the AIs themselves, not their users. I've mostly seen the term in the context of star wars memers eager to put their anti-droid memes and jokes to IRL usage.