Germans be like
smegforbrains @ smegforbrains @lemmy.ml Posts 5Comments 144Joined 2 yr. ago
smegforbrains @ smegforbrains @lemmy.ml
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I don't think that it's safe. I do think having sixteen intermediate storage facilities on the surface with high level nuclear waste is a massive security concern that we should address immediately. As long as we don't have a long term solution in Germany, we should not produce more nuclear waste. That's why it has been such a long running open question: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-level_radioactive_waste_management
This discussion is not just about you and me.
No it's not a discussion since you do not offer any arguments still.
That's right since you did not state anything that can be understood as an argument to support your point or to undermine mine.
"Every day, 13,000 liters of water flow into the Asse II nuclear waste storage facility in Lower Saxony, which is in danger of collapsing"
"There are quite a few quantities. If you just think about it: these 102 tons of uranium, 87 tons of thorium, then these 28 kilograms of plutonium. And then we have a mix of many different chemotoxic agents and pesticides. We have about 500 kilograms of arsenic. And plutonium is not only radioactive, it is deadly even at the size of a grain of dust. You shouldn't even think about what would happen if this shaft were to flood, that would still be possible. And the mountain really pushes upwards due to its pressure. Into the groundwater. That's a catastrophe."
"These are waters that have direct contact with the radioactive waste, they run through a storage chamber and there we obviously have different pollution than with this water, which we collect up here..."
"We have pictures from the chamber where we see, among other things, a yellow metal barrel that was squeezed between a concrete barrel and a chamber wall, meaning it was completely destroyed by the rock mechanical pressure. And we have also seen damaged lost concrete shields."
Source: https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/marodes-atommuelllager-die-wachsende-gefahr-von-asse-ii-100.html
There is no long term storage site for high level nuclear waste in Germany. So the issue of nuclear waste is clearly not solved.
Intermediate storage facilities for high level nuclear waste are a security concern:
https://www.bund.net/themen/atomkraft/atommuell/zwischenlager/
Google translation: https://www-bund-net.translate.goog/themen/atomkraft/atommuell/zwischenlager/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp
As stated before the idea is to employ renewable energy to produce green hydrogen for use in gas power plants. If you have no more coal power plants which is the target for 2038, you can not use it for hydrogen production. Germany wants to be self sufficient with regard to energy production, so we will have no other way to produce the hydrogen.
You are right in being sceptical, but IMHO the strategy is viable and can be implemented. And producing zero nuclear waste and be climate neutral at the same time is something we will have to achieve in the near future.
I can see that you don't want to have a civil discussion with me, as you do not offer any arguments. You just seem offended that I point this out to you while actually citing sources and offering arguments to support my view.
Yes I will as long as you are not engaging in a civil discussion, but keep succumbing to logical fallacies. You could try using viable arguments though.
Not a single argument from you to support your views or to deconstruct mine.
That's not an argument, that's another personal attack.
Exactly I think the German plans for the future of energy production are not produced out of thin air. It rather is the result of a well discussed issue that has been in the making for years. And now it's a feasible way to produce enough energy for the populace without resorting to fossil or nuclear fuel.
So your argument here is denial?
But yes please try to convince me and the readers. That's how discussion work.
"3% of the mass consists of fission products of 235U and 239Pu (also indirect products in the decay chain); these are considered radioactive waste or may be separated further for various industrial and medical uses."
It's not a choice of either nuclear or coal power. We have to and we as a society decided to phase both of them out. Because of the concerns regarding nuclear energy production and the waste being produced, Germany opted for phasing out nuclear power production in 2023 and aims to phase out coal power production in 2038 in order to get climate neutral by 2045 by using renewables energy in conjunction with green hydrogen power plants, of which forty are planned to be build in the foreseeable future.
Nuclear power production is not risk free, and there have been massive contamination of ground water in Germany in the old storage facility "Asse". The situation in there is so horrific, that it has been decided to get all the nuclear waste out again and store it on the surface again.
I don't think the effects of mistakes like these in handling nuclear waste are included in the before mentioned data. As are the possible horrific scenarios with high level nuclear waste stored on the surface.
I don't think that's right. The page clearly states "Nuclear reprocessing is the chemical separation of fission products and actinides from spent nuclear fuel."
No but during nuclear waste recycling weapons-grade material can be produced, that's why it's a nuclear proliferation concern.
Source: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_reprocessing
We currently have no real way to recycle spent fuel. Only a small percentage of nuclear waste can be recycled and it's very expensive to do so, that's why there are only two countries currently recycling fuel: France and Russia. Sellafield in the UK has been closed in the Fukushima aftermath. In France only 10% of nuclear fuel is recycled material using the purex process, which can also produce weapons-grade plutonium and therefore also raises different concerns.
https://www.goodenergycollective.org/policy/faq-recycling-nuclear-waste
This is true and that's why Germany decided to phase out fossil fuel and nuclear power production. Fossil fuel based power plants will be phased out 2038 and Germany aims to be climate neutral by 2045 using a mix of renewables and green hydrogen power plants.
They have tried for 45 years now and they tried it in Gorleben against the protest of the populace. There have been violent clashes between police and protesters, but in the end the protesters prevailed.
There also have been two storage facilities "Konrad" and "Asse" which have been catastrophic failures. Especially "Asse" was a horrific storage facility, with water leaks and corroded containers.
These experiences made it very hard to establish storage sites in Germany.
I don't think this is splitting hairs. New coal power plants have a life time of~35 years. Germany wants to phase out coal power by 2038. So when you're building new power plants, you don't plan to stop to use them in fourteen years time. But Germany wants to phase out coal power, so fourteen power plants have been reactivated for as long as they are not substituted by new hydrogen gas power plants, which is supposed to happen over the next years.
My point is that we should not produce more nuclear waste as long as we do not have adequate storage facilities for the long term.