me🇺🇦irl

Can someone explain how you are supposed to get Russia to leave? Sanctions didn’t work, lethal aid didn’t work, F-16s didn’t work, and striking Russia itself isn’t either.

These things haven't won the war, but they most definitely are working. Russia's economy is crippled, their military is running out of old equipment to cannibalize, and they lack the capability to produce the kinds of advanced military equipment they need. They've been throwing bodies into the meat grinder trying to overwhelm Ukraine, but despite the high cost they are making very little progress. This is not a great long term strategy, but it's the one Russia has been stuck with.

You can argue for the war to continue I suppose, but Ukraine isn’t winning and I’m not seeing anything here that would change that fact.

But what's the alternative? Right now Ukraine can only fight or surrender. While they fight, they can try to negotiate a peace deal, but so far the only deals Putin and Trump seem willing to consider are nearly indistinguishable from surrender. Give Russia everything they want, give up on everything you want, stop the fighting for now but put nothing in place to ensure that Russia won't just rearm and invade again later.

These things haven’t won the war, but they most definitely are working. Russia’s economy is crippled, their military is running out of old equipment to cannibalize, and they lack the capability to produce the kinds of advanced military equipment they need. They’ve been throwing bodies into the meat grinder trying to overwhelm Ukraine, but despite the high cost they are making very little progress.
Ukrainian propaganda that they've been winning all along. Russian military production is over 70% higher than at start of war, 30%/year last 2, and they gain territory every week with a weapons advantage including when new western arms shipments come in. Believing your fantasy is pro suiciding of Ukrainians.
The only deals Putin and Trump seem willing to consider are nearly indistinguishable from surrender.
The same deal from Russia was always on table for avoiding the war. Absolutely zero reason to think it was ever insincere or not meant to put both countries back at peace. If Ukraine's goal for a ceasefire is to rearm and resume terrorism operations on liberated regions of Ukraine, then Ukraine needs a new leader to get a lasting peace. Again, zero reason that Russia won't abide by peace it demands. US led Ukraine on the wrong track, and Ukraine Russia relations can get back on right track with "traditional attitude rulership"
- You're right, the Ukrainians should just give up on all these uppity notions of national sovereignty and self determination. They are in Russia's sphere of influence, their place is to do what Russia says. It's their fault if they don't listen and Putin has to give them a black eye, that's just him correcting them and showing he cares.
  They should welcome their Russian liberators, so they can finally see how wonderful life under Russian rule is. Just ask the people of Bucha and Mariupol, they'll be happy to tell you (if you can find a Ouija board in Cyrillic).
  
  The Ukraine war has really opened my eyes as to how many people genuinely can't tell the difference between "is" and "ought"
  
  give up on all these uppity notions of national sovereignty and self determination
  Mostly right. They should retain their sovereignty of what's left of Ukraine. Give up ambitions of ruling over people they hate and have killed since 2014. They should realize that US puppetry did not pay off, and resume normal relations with Russia.
  Bucha was a propaganda theater.
- Absolutely zero reason to think it was ever insincere
  Bahahaha. Bahahahahhahahahahahahaha. Fuck you.
- Wow kremlin talking points all over. Nothing to see here, tag the person and move on!
  
  Trusting peace with Russia, I understand to be a difficult ask, but they were at peace before US control. The military production rate is verifiably serious, and by far the most dangerous aspect to be disinformed on.
  
  More talking points from the kremlin, nothing to see, tag and move on!
There's no evidence that Russia is going to lose steam economically or on the battlefield any time soon. Continuing to fight a losing war will only make any final deal between the US, Russia and Ukraine worse for the latter. There's a reason the 2022 treaty that was proposed looks unrealistic today, and whatever deal they make now will be much better than when they finally run out of men in the Ukrainian army.
With the situation as it stands, negotiating is the best way out if you actually care about Ukraine. If you just want to weaken Russia then sure, fight to the last ukrainian.
- https://www.russiamatters.org/blog/russias-economy-collapsing
  That's weird considering every single thing I've read about Russia's economy recently has been that it's going to collapse soon.
  Edit: not a fascist
  
  A lot of news about this conflict has been about what Ukraine would like to be true, rather than the facts.
  
  Well, I ran this through several media bias checkers - it came back as unbiased. Site leans a little left, but that's about it.
  So tell me again, what are you trying to say? Because if your answer is more or less 'it's propaganda' - I'm not sure I should entertain this topic any further.
  
  I'm not sure I understand. The article you have linked concludes with:
  Writing for The Bell, Russian economy experts Alexander Kolyandr and Alexandra Prokopenko also disputed what they described as “claims of an imminent catastrophe” for the Russian economy. “In our view, all things being equal, it’s unlikely that the economy will implode soon,” they write. They have a point.
  Which just agrees with what I've said about sanctions not working.
  
  Why the world should care
  In our view, all things being equal, it’s unlikely that the economy will implode soon, forcing Russia to scale back its military campaign in Ukraine; or that deposits will be frozen. That doesn’t mean, however, that nothing will ever happen to deposits, nor that the banking sector will always be trouble-free. However, there are far bigger threats to the Russian economy at the moment: for example, a lack of transparent decision-making, little independent expertise, and the classification of much economic data all undermines trust in the authorities. This is more likely to, eventually, lead to some sort of hard-to-predict, man made crisis.
  This is the article written by Alexander Kolyandr and Alexandra Prokopenko. https://en.thebell.io/no-russia-is-not-on-the-verge-of-a-banking-crisis/
  So, they dispute the idea that there will be a credit/ banking crisis. They do not dispute that the Russian economy is in bad shape.
  Figures of the week
  Inflation in Russia might be starting to slow. Between January 1 and January 13, prices went up 0.67%, which suggests annual inflation of 9.9% (it was 9.5% last year). However, January’s figures reflect one-off boosts from increased sales of alcohol and tobacco, a further rise in the recycling fee for cars, higher public transport fares and a weakening ruble. Together with a fall in consumer demand and an increase in consumer borrowing, this could mean inflation will peak in the first half of the year. In the absence of external shocks (such as tighter sanctions) this could pave the way for lower interest rates.
  So, no, they do not agree that sanctions would not work. In fact, they imply here that an external shock like tighter sanctions would likely cause inflation to continue rising.
  What would be most likely to cause a man made crisis if not the value of the rouble decreasing further + a continued bloody war?
- There’s no evidence
  There's no evidence period about anything that's not propaganda right now. Either side could be days away from total collapse without any of us knowing it.
  
  True, but there are a few things we can glean through the war propaganda. The fact that Ukraine is outgunned to this day on the battlefield isn't some big state secret.

Are you sure that Ukraine is not winning?

It is a war of attrition with Russia against the amount of aid the West is willing to provide to Ukraine.

The only way Russia wins is if the US changes the balance of power by enriching Russia (dropping sanctions) or impoverishing Ukraine (dropping support).

If they were winning, we'd see russian advances on the battlefield stopping or being reversed, and what we are seeing is the exact opposite.
- The advances are minuscule (18% in thee years?!), and Ukraine is starting to have successes in the recent days. And they took a chunk out of Russia. And they interdicted the black fleet. And...
  You know, catastropes arrive slowly, and then suddenly, you can't extract some future information about what's happening today.
  
  Like I said: Ukraine has resisted and won many battles, but overall the war is not going their way. Russia has taken a small part of Ukraine, but it's most of what they've claimed as theirs. If anything, the coming catastrophe is more likely to come from the ukrainian side (with all the recruitment difficulties) rather than the russian one.
  
  More kremlin talking points, nothing to see, tag and move on.

Russia isn't winning, either.

So they should give up and let Russia re-arm and try again?

You're right, they should just be at war forever. The American Way.
Maybe they will attack again, but is throwing every last body they have to their deaths somehow going to help?

The F-16s mainly replace the losses of Ukraine‘s Air Force.

Yes, but they very much were not the game changers as touted by western leaders. Russia still very much has air superiority, which has been key for their battlefield results.

Ah, but have you considered that the good guy always wins?

This seems to genuinely be how libs think about this. There's no need for any practical considerations about what is achievable or how long it would take or how much it would cost, because the people with the best ideas will always come out on top, no matter what. The only way to lose is to corrupt the purity of the cause and of the ideal, practical/material considerations are unimportant and somehow unclean and distasteful to even consider.

"Just world theory," I suppose.

People expect Ukrainians to fight to the last man, for honor or some shit, and its gross. People are dying, and they've been at a stalemate for years. The outcome of this was never going to be good, considering the West has never given a single shit about Ukraine. Even before the war, the US toyed with them and blocked them from joining NATO for YEARS. With all the wars the West loses, you'd think they'd know when to call it off.

Probably by getting NATO & the US out, and the far-right regime they installed dismantled.

That would've have worked in February 2022, but Russia has commited too much to settle for just that.
- Russia has never asked for anything else. They don’t want Nazis on their doorstep. Who would?

So you believe there is some magical weapon "X", when given to Ukraine, will make Russia leave? There is one, it's nuclear bomb lol. Other than that, it's not a specific weapon type that has to be provided, but a steady flow of a range of weapons.

The point I'm making is that they are receiving the weapons the US and Europe can make/spare, and they are still losing on the battlefield. If negotiating is not the way to go (as the meme implies) then what's the way to victory? As it's going, every man in Ukraine will die and they'll still lose.
- If Russia is winning the war of attrition, why did they bring North Korea in?
  
  The evidence for that is tenuous at best.
  
  Lol
- Oh, okay. So no need to fight wars anymore. We can tell who will win by eye. And the country who we eye-spot will lose the war should just throw away their sovereignty to the aggressors from the start since they can't win.
  America spends the most on defense, so they'll probably win in any war. Then, I guess America should just de-facto rule the world. United Earth of America, everyone. Resistance is futile.
  
  So you think that if they keep fighting they'll turn it around sometime in the future?
- "Every man" will not die, because they intentionally not mobilising the young men. They also did hold for several months completely by themselves while West was scared and only talked about sending diapers & bandage. They also survived when US stopped their aid completely for 6 month. It's been 3 years since the hold against a supposedly "2nd army in the world", so they are definitely not losing. They did an incredibly well job given their resources, if they ask for more, who we are to decide for them?
  
  "Every man" will not die, because they intentionally not mobilising the young men.
  You mean literal children and university-age "men"? I guess everyone else dying would be fair game though, right?
  What an insane statement.
  
  it means, "below 25 won't die". Because they try to limit suffering lol. Unsure what you found so insane in that. Try harder to be offended
  
  "Everyone dying except those under 25" is not "limiting suffering".
  
  They did an incredibly well job but are still losing the war and territory because Russia has more meat to throw on the battlefield and a bigger economy.
  Dragging the war with foreign aid is not providing any resolution, it’s making the EU look as weak headless chicken who can’t come up with a concrete plan to stop a war on its doorstep.
  
  They did an incredibly well job but are still losing the war and territory because Russia has more meat to throw on the battlefield and a bigger economy
  Yup, unfortunately still loosing some territory while inflicting heavy losses to the other side
  it’s making the EU look as weak headless chicken who can’t come up with a concrete plan to stop a war on its doorstep.
  Yup, agreed
  Dragging the war with foreign aid is not providing any resolution
  "Dragging the war with current amount of foreign aid is not providing any resolution" FTFY
  
  The only reason they haven't lowered the age of conscription further is because it's very unpopular and the current government can't afford the political hit.
  They have resisted to the best of their ability, yes. No one can deny that, but even then they are being pushed back more and more as time goes on. And that is, in fact, losing. Specially in a war of attrition like we are seeing.
- Collapse of russia.