As of 30 minutes ago at the time of posting, the NYPD has detained two young Black men after they refused their demands to show ID without explanation or cause.
The NYPD is skulking through the L train demanding IDs from Black and Latino men, again with zero justified cause or explanation as to why.
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Reminder that there legally cannot be a crime such as "failure to provide identification" outside of specific contexts like actively operating a vehicle, etc. Lots of states allow cops to require you to provide your legal name (and sometimes address) when detained, and courts usually have the ability to compell the same.
Yeah actual laws as written don't matter.
This is fascism; the cop regime. They dont know or care about the laws, everything is vibes, and courts up to and especially the supreme will back them on this.
In England, it's necessary to provide name and address when arrested, but, it's illegal for the police to arrest just to find out your name. But of course, how difficult is it for them to make up some asinine BS excuse?
"I smell weed" has been a classic for decades.
A long while back, I was harassed by the cops for "acting suspicious" while waiting for some friends at the mall. This quickly escalated to "suspected terrorist activity" for absolutely no reason I could discern or anyone afterwards could explain.
Cops just say shit. The best you can do is say you need to speak to a lawyer and clam up after that.
I had the cops try to pin a bunch of crimes on me and a few coworkers once. Thought my life was over for a few days because they were very serious allegations. Fortunately their police report was so ridiculous as soon as someone competent got involved the whole thing was immediately dropped. The claims they made had literally no evidence and multiple witnesses could prove they were lying. Cops 100% will say anything, it makes their job easier and there's no consequences.
If a cop says the sky is blue, maybe check.
It was probably overcast as fuck, if not heavily raining.
Or during sunset/rise, yes.
I got questioned by the police when waiting for the train in New York (state) once. I'm a white guy, though I had really long hair at the time. They came up and said someone had reported someone suspicious. I was like, well, I'm waiting for the train and my friends. They were like someone saw you looking in that car suspiciously. I said, that's my car. They asked if I had proof so I opened the door with the key.
Then my friend and her shitty little brother showed up. The brother yells "YO YOU GOT MY WEED??"
Luckily the cops realized that was an idiot 13 year old white kid, and they left.
Luckily the cops realized that was an idiot 13 year old white kid
Luckily you were white. If you'd been anything else they would've been all over the car, maybe even planted something, and been like "well, we had to take the kid seriously just in case".
True. I mentioned my whiteness in my comment intentionally, but maybe I should have made it more explicit as you have.
Sounds about white.
A guy I knew was on probation and would be visited by cops on a regular basis. During one of the visits, one of his roommates was on his computer doing some programming. The cop looked angry and asked him "are you hacking?"
Bruh...
To be honest, that's probably a question he has to ask.
When I was on probation I had a ton of random things I wasn't allowed to do including any crime on a computer. But since I work in IT a lot of my job "looks" like hacking so I had to get a letter from my boss basically saying "he is not hacking at work"
'Doing things i don't understand' is hacking.
If lots of states allow cops to require you to provide your name and you don't, isn't that refusal to comply with a lawful order, and thus a crime?
Failure to id is a secondary crime, you first need to be lawfully detained/lawfully suspected of a crime, before id can be demanded in 24 states. In the remaining states you need to be arrested before id can be demanded. Driving a motor vehicle is different though. As long as an officer had a reasonable reason for pulling you over, they can id you even if you dispell their suspicions prior to providing ID. If you're pulled over, it's best to always provide ID.
So it's only a lawful order if the police follow the law, if they just walk down the street randomly asking people for id, then failure to comply with their unlawful demands can be thrown out by the courts. Of course the police can just lie and make up a reason they suspected you of a crime, which is why some states have made things like "smelling marijuana" not enough on it's own.
The driver can be IDed while driving, but no one else is obligated to provide proof of ID as they are not lawfully nor unlawfully operating a motor vehicle.
Good point to clarify.
Thanks for the extra info, I'm not from the US so I was going just from the information provided by the comment above.
Sure, but if they demand your name, you tell them your name, they can't then demand your ID to prove it