can anyone provide any sources to prove the bs we deal with
A friend of mine is arguing with me saying cishet men are oppressed and stuff. He thinks I'm insane for supporting the community I'm a part of
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I don't know your friend, but he may feel like he's losing you as well. The world is burning and cishet men have trouble finding a place to be safe. We assume they don't need one, but most of the space they have is not good.
It's hard to do what I'm going to suggest when you are suffering as well, so put yourself first. Forget any groups, treat you two as your community and ask what exactly is bothering him. What happens that make him feel oppressed? How does you supporting another community harm him? If anything else, his pain is real, he can't put it into words and end up invalidated. That's actually a point you have in common, you may start there.
agreed. imo cishet men (especially white men) tend to have their problems completely overlooked and invalidated by our community just because they are comparatively privileged, but that’s not right. they absolutely do have problems they have to deal with too, plenty of which are from the patriarchy, and i think that just talking to him about what he’s feeling is totally the best way to go about this.
As a white cishet name male, no. We are not oppressed, and the people who insist on victimizing themselves in that way are completely full of shit. It's frankly insulting to actual oppressed groups.
I think this suggestion that my "problems," are in any way comparable to what LGBTQ+ people, or people of color, go through on a regular basis, is not just insulting, but potentially dangerous.
Cishet white men don't live a life without issues, that's not my claim. Literally no human does. But we're talking about two very different categories of issue, and what cishet men experience is just what people in general experience. It's the baseline.
The more acceptable it becomes to equate those things, the harder it becomes to actually do anything about the people experiencing actual oppression.
well, i disagree. i’m not trying to claim cishet white men are oppressed, i never said that, and people who do are flat out wrong. i’m just saying that, because of their privilege (which i’m agreeing they obviously do have), their problems with things like mental health are heavily overlooked and dismissed. men suffer from expectations related to toxic masculinity and the patriarchy. sexual assault against men gets laughed at and joked about, it’s not acceptable for men to show emotions or cry, and in this society men need to be strong all the time. even small things like how men should pay for dinner on a date or hold the car door open are unfair expectations placed on men alone.
i am not trying to say that men have issues comparable to poc or lgbt folks. i’m just saying that what men go through are real problems that need to be validated, not brushed off. being brushed off is exactly what drives men to incel forums- no one else will sympathize with their struggles whatsoever. we need to be better at this.
It's still unreasonable to expect the people who are actively oppressed to cater to him. If you have the energy sure. But otherwise that's another expression of privilege. If cishet men can only sympatise with each other through incel forums maybe they themselves need to be better.
I mean they're also the group that features the ringleaders of the worst shit happening.
And I'm sure that comforts them when the mental health crisis gripping them leads to another suicide or more alcoholism or drug abuse. I know when I'm struggling with the weight of everything in dealing with I tell myself "Well, at least white people control the economy and nation." And then all my problems go away and I continue happy knowing I can oppress minorities and women /s
i don’t follow. that doesn’t mean all of them are terrible? i’m sure all the men who feel like they can’t talk to anyone about their problems like sexual assault, suicidal thoughts, and unfair expectations from a patriarchal society are really comforted by the thought that it’s people just like them that cause others unbelievable suffering. that’ll really boost their spirits!
The pain and oppression he feels is real and it's caused by patriarchy And capitalism. Not the LGBTQ community. Other forces have validated those feelings but pointed to gay and trans and brown people as the cause. Rather than dunking on them with "are you even oppressed bro?" Like many others here are suggesting which they admit would never work because of course it wouldn't work who responds well to that, the best way to change someone's mind is to talk with them validate their feelings and struggles and fears and point out that it isn't minorities causing these issues but direct them to the real cause. I know it's hard to empathize with people who see you as the problem but it's the only way to actually change their mind and get them on the right path if that's what you actually want to have happen. If it isn't then go ahead and hit them with a "check your privilege shit lord" and go about your day knowing you just owned the patriarchy